by Jimmy_041 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:15 pm
by Dutchy » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:57 pm
Jim05 wrote:Still need a permit to enter SA and the border control would have turned them aroundDutchy wrote:If they drove here it would have never been picked up
by Jim05 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:03 pm
Effectively it is but all people entering the state need to go on the SAPOL website and complete an online application form. Approval is back in a matter of minutes and you will get a number that you need to show at the border checkpoint or airport arrivals. My last couple of flights back it’s taken nearly an hour to get through the checksDutchy wrote:Jim05 wrote:Still need a permit to enter SA and the border control would have turned them aroundDutchy wrote:If they drove here it would have never been picked up
I thought the border was open to all except Victorians?
by Q. » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:59 pm
Jimmy_041 wrote:I’m confused
I just saw vision of Victorian CHO Brett Sutton on Ch9 on 3rd October saying NZ visitors were allowed to visit Victoria
But Daniel Andrews says he knew nothing about it.
Victoria is a major SNAFU
State borders are a state responsibility. It’s not the Feds or Border Force responsibility once they are in here.
You can’t stop people jumping on a plane but you can stop them at the border which is what happened in WA & SA
When I flew back to SA last month, no one at Jetstar asked if I had the required permit.
I checked the SA website to see what I should do & it all went smoothly.
But Andrews just likes blaming everyone else for his government’s **** ups
by Q. » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:02 pm
by Jim05 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:19 pm
The bubble hasn’t been thought out well at all but it appeared the Vics knew there was a chance this may happenQ. wrote:Jimmy_041 wrote:I’m confused
I just saw vision of Victorian CHO Brett Sutton on Ch9 on 3rd October saying NZ visitors were allowed to visit Victoria
But Daniel Andrews says he knew nothing about it.
Victoria is a major SNAFU
State borders are a state responsibility. It’s not the Feds or Border Force responsibility once they are in here.
You can’t stop people jumping on a plane but you can stop them at the border which is what happened in WA & SA
When I flew back to SA last month, no one at Jetstar asked if I had the required permit.
I checked the SA website to see what I should do & it all went smoothly.
But Andrews just likes blaming everyone else for his government’s **** ups
Brett Sutton states, word for word, "we'll be at a point very soon where there won't be a concern about Victorians travelling or indeed New Zealanders travelling and not having to quarantine on return", not as you put it categorically stating here and now that they are allowed to visit.
Also, Andrews explicitly states in this letter to the PM, soon after, that they will not be a part of the travel bubble:
And VIC state border has been left open to NSW at the very request of the Federal Govt. Once again, Fed LNP passing the buck after stuffing up the logistics of the travel bubble arrangement.
by Q. » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:52 pm
Jim05 wrote:The bubble hasn’t been thought out well at all but it appeared the Vics knew there was a chance this may happen
Australian Border Force Commissioner Michael Outram says Victorian health authorities raised no objections when they were told last week New Zealanders arriving in Sydney under the travel bubble would be able to enter Victoria.
Mr Outram said there were no objections offered at a meeting last Friday from Victoria’s Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton.
...
“There was a meeting last Friday at Melbourne airport at 2pm, convened by (Department of Health and Human Services),” Mr Outram told Senate Estimates hearings on Monday morning..
“This movement of passengers from NSW to Victoria was discussed. So clearly at an operational level the Victorian services recognised what was happening. And no objections were raised.”
by Jim05 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:59 pm
Because this is a purely a trial and I’d say the Feds would even admit that there have been some issues but it’s a small step forward that the country needs. Hopefully by time the other nations join any bubble we will see all states open to each other.Q. wrote:Jim05 wrote:The bubble hasn’t been thought out well at all but it appeared the Vics knew there was a chance this may happen
Australian Border Force Commissioner Michael Outram says Victorian health authorities raised no objections when they were told last week New Zealanders arriving in Sydney under the travel bubble would be able to enter Victoria.
Mr Outram said there were no objections offered at a meeting last Friday from Victoria’s Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton.
...
“There was a meeting last Friday at Melbourne airport at 2pm, convened by (Department of Health and Human Services),” Mr Outram told Senate Estimates hearings on Monday morning..
“This movement of passengers from NSW to Victoria was discussed. So clearly at an operational level the Victorian services recognised what was happening. And no objections were raised.”
And yet, two days ago Andrews wrote this letter to the PM:
So, the question is, why create a travel bubble that is totally unenforceable? It does not bode well if we extend the bubble to the likes of Japan, Sth Korea, Singapore etc and once they land there is no restriction on movement.
by Q. » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:27 pm
by Jimmy_041 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:34 pm
Q. wrote:Jimmy_041 wrote:I’m confused
I just saw vision of Victorian CHO Brett Sutton on Ch9 on 3rd October saying NZ visitors were allowed to visit Victoria
But Daniel Andrews says he knew nothing about it.
Victoria is a major SNAFU
State borders are a state responsibility. It’s not the Feds or Border Force responsibility once they are in here.
You can’t stop people jumping on a plane but you can stop them at the border which is what happened in WA & SA
When I flew back to SA last month, no one at Jetstar asked if I had the required permit.
I checked the SA website to see what I should do & it all went smoothly.
But Andrews just likes blaming everyone else for his government’s **** ups
Brett Sutton states, word for word, "we'll be at a point very soon where there won't be a concern about Victorians travelling or indeed New Zealanders travelling and not having to quarantine on return", not as you put it categorically stating here and now that they are allowed to visit.
Also, Andrews explicitly states in this letter to the PM, soon after, that they will not be a part of the travel bubble:
And VIC state border has been left open to NSW at the very request of the Federal Govt. Once again, Fed LNP passing the buck after stuffing up the logistics of the travel bubble arrangement.
Travelling to Victoria from New Zealand
A trans-Tasman travel bubble is currently in place between New Zealand and parts of Australia. This allows travellers from New Zealand to arrive in New South Wales and the Northern Territory without having to quarantine for 14 days on arrival.
Currently the Victorian borders are open. If you are travelling from New Zealand and have passed all relevant immigration and biosecurity requirements as established by the Federal Government, New South Wales Government and Northern Territory Government, then you are able to travel to Victoria. You do not need to quarantine for 14 days on arrival in Victoria.
by Jimmy_041 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:38 pm
that has been corrected todaytrans-Tasmin
by Jim05 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:18 pm
by Jimmy_041 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:17 am
Q. wrote:Jimmy_041 wrote:I’m confused
I just saw vision of Victorian CHO Brett Sutton on Ch9 on 3rd October saying NZ visitors were allowed to visit Victoria
But Daniel Andrews says he knew nothing about it.
Victoria is a major SNAFU
State borders are a state responsibility. It’s not the Feds or Border Force responsibility once they are in here.
You can’t stop people jumping on a plane but you can stop them at the border which is what happened in WA & SA
When I flew back to SA last month, no one at Jetstar asked if I had the required permit.
I checked the SA website to see what I should do & it all went smoothly.
But Andrews just likes blaming everyone else for his government’s **** ups
Brett Sutton states, word for word, "we'll be at a point very soon where there won't be a concern about Victorians travelling or indeed New Zealanders travelling and not having to quarantine on return", not as you put it categorically stating here and now that they are allowed to visit.
Also, Andrews explicitly states in this letter to the PM, soon after, that they will not be a part of the travel bubble:
And VIC state border has been left open to NSW at the very request of the Federal Govt. Once again, Fed LNP passing the buck after stuffing up the logistics of the travel bubble arrangement.
'Victorian borders are open': State website clear to Kiwi travellers
By David Crowe and Anthony Galloway
Updated October 19, 2020 — 1.04pmfirst published at 9.31am
The Victorian government is telling travellers from New Zealand they are free to enter the state without entering quarantine, despite a political storm over a "breach" of a new travel bubble across the Tasman.
The Morrison government cited the official Victorian advice to escalate its attacks on Premier Daniel Andrews on Monday morning, saying the state had no grounds to turn away the travellers.
Population Minister Alan Tudge said the travellers from New Zealand presented very little risk, given the low number of coronavirus cases in that country, and should be able to travel to other parts of Australia upon arrival in Sydney.
Australian Border Force commissioner Michael Outram also contradicted the Andrews government on Monday, saying no objections were ever raised by Victorian officials in a series of meetings about the New Zealand travel bubble.
Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews is dealing with the Trans-Tasman travel bubble breach of 17 New Zealand roaming in Victoria besides recording just one COVID-19 case.
The Victorian government website said on Monday morning that the "trans-Tasmin (sic) travel bubble" allowed travellers from New Zealand to arrive in New South Wales and the Northern Territory without having to quarantine for 14 days on arrival.
"Currently the Victorian borders are open," the website said.
"If you are travelling from New Zealand and have passed all relevant immigration and biosecurity requirements as established by the Federal Government, New South Wales Government and Northern Territory Government, then you are able to travel to Victoria.
"You do not need to quarantine for 14 days on arrival in Victoria."
The Victorian government website tells potential travellers they should not enter the state if they have coronavirus symptoms and says they may be subject to detention under public health laws, but it does not advise them against entering the state.
Mr Andrews blasted the federal government over the weekend after up to 55 travellers from New Zealand entered Victoria via Sydney. State government sources said they asked the Australian Border Force for passengers names on Friday night and didn't get them until Saturday lunch time.
The Premier mocked the "gold standard" advice the state was receiving from federal officials who initially said there were 17 arrivals before revising the figure to 55.
Angrily rejecting claims from Mr Tudge that state officials were told the arrivals would come, Mr Andrews urged the Morrison government to help identify the travellers who intended to enter Victoria.
"Work with us and let's make sure Victoria is not part of a bubble that we never agreed to be in," Mr Andrews said on Sunday.
"Now, if that isn’t possible, if that isn’t possible, let's talk about what else can happen. I don't want to shut our border."
Mr Tudge said the state website made it clear that the travel to Victoria was allowed.
"Their own website expressly says this, and this is why I’m perplexed as to why Daniel Andrews launched such an aggressive attack on us over the weekend," Mr Tudge told radio station 2GB.
"We don’t want to argue with him over these matters because they were discussed at officials’ levels, they were agreed by the Victorian government according to their own internal emails.
"He’s raised this issue and said very publicly that we’re apparently at fault, when it seems very clear they knew about it, consented to it and their website shows people can do exactly what they did."
Mr Andrews said the state website had been updated at 8.30pm on Sunday night to reflect the situation after the events of the weekend.
Sue, who did not disclose her surname, travelled from New Zealand to Melbourne to attend her father's funeral.
She said she has been hurt by comments making it sound like those who travelled to Victoria did something "sneaky" and broke the rules.
"It's been very stressful," Sue told 3AW radio. "It's been a very difficult time and I think for me I just wanted to let people know we came over in good faith.
"I was so excited to be here for my Dad's funeral. The thought of not being here would have broken my heart."
Sue said she wasn't coming to Melbourne for a holiday, and it was disappointing to see reports and comments suggesting she was flouting the rules.
"It's has been hurtful to be portrayed that way," she said. "We were told we could come. We didn't do anything sneaky, we were told we could book a ticket and we could come."
Some Liberals believe the Victorian government launched the fight with Canberra as a distraction from the controversy over the ongoing social restrictions, given business concerns the state is relaxing the rules too slowly.
Victorian Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton said two weeks ago that New Zealanders would be able to come to the state.
Dr Sutton told a press conference on October 3, the day after the travel bubble was announced, that the state had not “missed out” on the new arrangement across the Tasman.
"New Zealanders are free to come to Victoria. The question is what the requirements are on arrival in Australia," he said.
"So the travel bubble, as I understand it, is that there’s no quarantine requirement for those coming from New Zealand because of the risk status of New Zealand.
"Victoria is open and we’ll be at a point very soon where there won’t be a concern about Victorians travelling or, indeed, New Zealanders travelling and not having to quarantine."
Mr Outram, the head of Border Force, said there was a meeting at Melbourne Airport on Friday at 2pm where the issue of passengers from New Zealand was discussed, and no objections were raised by Victorian officials.
"I am unaware of any objections being raised through any of those discussions or meetings that occurred," Mr Outram told Senate estimates on Monday.
"Once a passenger leaves the international terminal, once they depart the customs controlled area, the back of the baggage hall, they cease to be an international traveller or passenger, they’ve entered Australia.
"It’s clear that once somebody comes into NSW and they are exempt by NSW Health for quarantine because they are low risk, they are then free to move around. And they’re subject to the same state laws as everybody else in terms of domestic travel."
Home Affairs secretary Michael Pezzullo said once a person has entered Australia it is not up to Mr Outram "to sort of follow them around subsequently".
"If state border controls are a factor, then on-travel is potentially an issue in terms of how domestic travel is then undertaken, but that strictly is not a matter for the Australian Border Force," Mr Pezzullo said.
by Q. » Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:44 am
Jimmy_041 wrote:I know what I saw, and heard, on Channel 9 news tonight. I just need to find the clip.
BTW, if all of what Dan Andrews, and you, say is true, then why does the Victorian State Government Health and Human Services website say its OK for NZ travellers to go to Victoria as part of the trans-Tasman travel bubble and without isolation?
https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/information-overseas-travellers-coronavirus-disease-covid-19#travelling-to-victoria-from-new-zealand
and I quoteTravelling to Victoria from New Zealand
A trans-Tasman travel bubble is currently in place between New Zealand and parts of Australia. This allows travellers from New Zealand to arrive in New South Wales and the Northern Territory without having to quarantine for 14 days on arrival.
Currently the Victorian borders are open. If you are travelling from New Zealand and have passed all relevant immigration and biosecurity requirements as established by the Federal Government, New South Wales Government and Northern Territory Government, then you are able to travel to Victoria. You do not need to quarantine for 14 days on arrival in Victoria.
by Q. » Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:17 am
Jimmy_041 wrote:Q. wrote:Jimmy_041 wrote:I’m confused
I just saw vision of Victorian CHO Brett Sutton on Ch9 on 3rd October saying NZ visitors were allowed to visit Victoria
But Daniel Andrews says he knew nothing about it.
Victoria is a major SNAFU
State borders are a state responsibility. It’s not the Feds or Border Force responsibility once they are in here.
You can’t stop people jumping on a plane but you can stop them at the border which is what happened in WA & SA
When I flew back to SA last month, no one at Jetstar asked if I had the required permit.
I checked the SA website to see what I should do & it all went smoothly.
But Andrews just likes blaming everyone else for his government’s **** ups
Brett Sutton states, word for word, "we'll be at a point very soon where there won't be a concern about Victorians travelling or indeed New Zealanders travelling and not having to quarantine on return", not as you put it categorically stating here and now that they are allowed to visit.
Also, Andrews explicitly states in this letter to the PM, soon after, that they will not be a part of the travel bubble:
And VIC state border has been left open to NSW at the very request of the Federal Govt. Once again, Fed LNP passing the buck after stuffing up the logistics of the travel bubble arrangement.
I haven't found the clip yet but I'm close. This will do for the moment.
Word for word as neither Ch 9 or you quote the entire statement. I’ll break down the context of the last sentence tomorrow as I interpret it very differently when i read it in context of the entire statement.
I will say it again: Is it any wonder Victoria is so ****** up when the Premier, CMO and DHHS completely contradict each other.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/victorian-borders-are-open-state-website-clear-to-kiwi-travellers-20201019-p566ck.html'Victorian borders are open': State website clear to Kiwi travellers
By David Crowe and Anthony Galloway
Updated October 19, 2020 — 1.04pmfirst published at 9.31am
The Victorian government is telling travellers from New Zealand they are free to enter the state without entering quarantine, despite a political storm over a "breach" of a new travel bubble across the Tasman.
The Morrison government cited the official Victorian advice to escalate its attacks on Premier Daniel Andrews on Monday morning, saying the state had no grounds to turn away the travellers.
Population Minister Alan Tudge said the travellers from New Zealand presented very little risk, given the low number of coronavirus cases in that country, and should be able to travel to other parts of Australia upon arrival in Sydney.
Australian Border Force commissioner Michael Outram also contradicted the Andrews government on Monday, saying no objections were ever raised by Victorian officials in a series of meetings about the New Zealand travel bubble.
Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews is dealing with the Trans-Tasman travel bubble breach of 17 New Zealand roaming in Victoria besides recording just one COVID-19 case.
The Victorian government website said on Monday morning that the "trans-Tasmin (sic) travel bubble" allowed travellers from New Zealand to arrive in New South Wales and the Northern Territory without having to quarantine for 14 days on arrival.
"Currently the Victorian borders are open," the website said.
"If you are travelling from New Zealand and have passed all relevant immigration and biosecurity requirements as established by the Federal Government, New South Wales Government and Northern Territory Government, then you are able to travel to Victoria.
"You do not need to quarantine for 14 days on arrival in Victoria."
The Victorian government website tells potential travellers they should not enter the state if they have coronavirus symptoms and says they may be subject to detention under public health laws, but it does not advise them against entering the state.
Mr Andrews blasted the federal government over the weekend after up to 55 travellers from New Zealand entered Victoria via Sydney. State government sources said they asked the Australian Border Force for passengers names on Friday night and didn't get them until Saturday lunch time.
The Premier mocked the "gold standard" advice the state was receiving from federal officials who initially said there were 17 arrivals before revising the figure to 55.
Angrily rejecting claims from Mr Tudge that state officials were told the arrivals would come, Mr Andrews urged the Morrison government to help identify the travellers who intended to enter Victoria.
"Work with us and let's make sure Victoria is not part of a bubble that we never agreed to be in," Mr Andrews said on Sunday.
"Now, if that isn’t possible, if that isn’t possible, let's talk about what else can happen. I don't want to shut our border."
Mr Tudge said the state website made it clear that the travel to Victoria was allowed.
"Their own website expressly says this, and this is why I’m perplexed as to why Daniel Andrews launched such an aggressive attack on us over the weekend," Mr Tudge told radio station 2GB.
"We don’t want to argue with him over these matters because they were discussed at officials’ levels, they were agreed by the Victorian government according to their own internal emails.
"He’s raised this issue and said very publicly that we’re apparently at fault, when it seems very clear they knew about it, consented to it and their website shows people can do exactly what they did."
Mr Andrews said the state website had been updated at 8.30pm on Sunday night to reflect the situation after the events of the weekend.
Sue, who did not disclose her surname, travelled from New Zealand to Melbourne to attend her father's funeral.
She said she has been hurt by comments making it sound like those who travelled to Victoria did something "sneaky" and broke the rules.
"It's been very stressful," Sue told 3AW radio. "It's been a very difficult time and I think for me I just wanted to let people know we came over in good faith.
"I was so excited to be here for my Dad's funeral. The thought of not being here would have broken my heart."
Sue said she wasn't coming to Melbourne for a holiday, and it was disappointing to see reports and comments suggesting she was flouting the rules.
"It's has been hurtful to be portrayed that way," she said. "We were told we could come. We didn't do anything sneaky, we were told we could book a ticket and we could come."
Some Liberals believe the Victorian government launched the fight with Canberra as a distraction from the controversy over the ongoing social restrictions, given business concerns the state is relaxing the rules too slowly.
Victorian Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton said two weeks ago that New Zealanders would be able to come to the state.
Dr Sutton told a press conference on October 3, the day after the travel bubble was announced, that the state had not “missed out” on the new arrangement across the Tasman.
"New Zealanders are free to come to Victoria. The question is what the requirements are on arrival in Australia," he said.
"So the travel bubble, as I understand it, is that there’s no quarantine requirement for those coming from New Zealand because of the risk status of New Zealand.
"Victoria is open and we’ll be at a point very soon where there won’t be a concern about Victorians travelling or, indeed, New Zealanders travelling and not having to quarantine."
Mr Outram, the head of Border Force, said there was a meeting at Melbourne Airport on Friday at 2pm where the issue of passengers from New Zealand was discussed, and no objections were raised by Victorian officials.
"I am unaware of any objections being raised through any of those discussions or meetings that occurred," Mr Outram told Senate estimates on Monday.
"Once a passenger leaves the international terminal, once they depart the customs controlled area, the back of the baggage hall, they cease to be an international traveller or passenger, they’ve entered Australia.
"It’s clear that once somebody comes into NSW and they are exempt by NSW Health for quarantine because they are low risk, they are then free to move around. And they’re subject to the same state laws as everybody else in terms of domestic travel."
Home Affairs secretary Michael Pezzullo said once a person has entered Australia it is not up to Mr Outram "to sort of follow them around subsequently".
"If state border controls are a factor, then on-travel is potentially an issue in terms of how domestic travel is then undertaken, but that strictly is not a matter for the Australian Border Force," Mr Pezzullo said.
I might add Andrews says he cant stop people entering Victoria or find them.
**** me does that mean SA and WA are acting illegally because they are!
But Andrews says everyone else is playing politics..........
by cracka » Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:15 am
by Booney » Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:24 am
cracka wrote:Jeezus. As much political point scoring going on here as there is in parliament
by Dutchy » Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:29 am
by Jim05 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:05 am
Not allowed to go from Metro to regional in Victoria without a permitDutchy wrote:Anyone can go into Victoria can't they? The issue is obviously coming out
by Lightning McQueen » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:21 am
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