bye bye Mr Rudd

[silicone skyline]

How dare you be successful psyber.

I dont think thats what DW was getting at mate...

[Psyber]

Nope, no problem with that at all.

I asked a question and got an answer. Just a bit more of an answer than I expected is all. I thought I'd should acknowledge that.

Sorry if I was overinclusive - I have my obsessional traits - which are sometimes an asset in business but not always so socially!

I couldn't find a simple and exact way to answer. I could have left the last sentence out if I'd been thinking about it, but getting out is on my mind at present so it intruded when I was in relaxed mode. [I need a change about every 10 years or I get bored.]

[redden whites]

What sort of business do you run psyber?

I sold the farm I had in SA,

Where was the property and what kinda loan was required to start up the farm gig?

[Psyber]

What sort of business do you run psyber?

I sold the farm I had in SA,

Where was the property and what kinda loan was required to start up the farm gig?

It was only a hobby farm really - not big enough to make a proper living - near Echunga. We ran Angora goats and Alpaca. I sold a house in the better part of Prospect for enough to pay for it, so I didn't need a loan. I also had an interest in a larger property in the Flinders Ranges and that didn't really pay either, but was nice to visit.

I always used to say only poppy and marijuana farming paid and I wasn't getting into those.

Seriously, I have family connections on farms near Barmera and near Moonta, and a cousin at Dubbo. From information gleaned from all those I can say that you have to be really big to make a decent living and the return is not good for the capital investment and the amount of hard work at that size. Overall, inner or mid-city housing, shares, and good managed funds are a better bet.

Small businesses like shops and galleries don't really pay either unless you already own the premises, except perhaps in inflationary times, like the gallery did in the 1980s until it started to fall over due to the interest peak at the end of 1987, when people stopped buying anything but tax deductions.

Sorry if I've gone on too much, but I was concerned that if you are looking for a way to make living I should explain the pitfalls. I'd recommend staying out of running shops or farms, even though the farm was a good lifestyle while my back could take it. Buying franchises is a mugs game too.

[mick]

I've only voted Labor once in my life since 1972, I voted for Hawke in 1983, because Fraser was only marginally better than Whitlam. I will not be voting Labor this election, although I am convinced now Howard will lose for a number of reasons:

1. Most people think the good times will continue regardless of who is PM
2. The IR laws were radical and potentially unfair, Australians are conservatives, although my partner and I have greatly benefited from these laws, I as a rusted on Liberal think they are unfair to the young and inarticulate.
3. Many conservative lawyers I know, were horrified at the treatment of Hicks, every constitutional protection we have since Magna Carta was ignored. As a conservative Liberal I believe in a fair go under the law, this is non negotiable.

OK do I think Rudd will do a better job? not necessarily, if he wins by a landslide there is no incentive to be accountable , a close win 5-10 seats he will definitely try. A Labor landslide will result in bad government, if you are Labor inclined look what happened after the last Howard landslide. Landslides are bad.

[Psyber]

I've only voted Labor once in my life since 1972, I voted for Hawke in 1983, because Fraser was only marginally better than Whitlam. I will not be voting Labor this election, although I am convinced now Howard will lose for a number of reasons:

1. Most people think the good times will continue regardless of who is PM
2. The IR laws were radical and potentially unfair, Australians are conservatives, although my partner and I have greatly benefited from these laws, I as a rusted on Liberal think they are unfair to the young and inarticulate.
3. Many conservative lawyers I know, were horrified at the treatment of Hicks, every constitutional protection we have since Magna Carta was ignored. As a conservative Liberal I believe in a fair go under the law, this is non negotiable.

OK do I think Rudd will do a better job? not necessarily, if he wins by a landslide there is no incentive to be accountable , a close win 5-10 seats he will definitely try. A Labor landslide will result in bad government, if you are Labor inclined look what happened after the last Howard landslide. Landslides are bad.

I agree with that summation Mick. I voted for Whitlam partly over the Vietnam issue, and partly carried by that glorious idealism, but I didn't vote for Hawke because I thought his protocol offered the problems of the Whitlam government without the liberalism, and so it came to pass. I think Rudd will win for the reasons you gave - they were issues I pestered my local Liberal MP about, warning that they would come back to bite them in time. Personally, I was happier with Fraser as his government was less authoritarian than any we have had since.

I hope it is a narrow win for the same reasons you gave. My "Julia and the Unions" quip in another thread was based on what might happen after a landslide. Ideally, I don't like either party having control of both houses. You have to keep politicians in check!

[topsywaldron]

Landslides are bad.

I knew eventually we'd agree on something.

[blueandwhite]

landslides are bad alright, but a government having control of the senate so that the can whiz through any idealogical wet dreams they had when they were young libs is worse.

[mick]

landslides are bad alright, but a government having control of the senate so that the can whiz through any idealogical wet dreams they had when they were young libs is worse.

So having said that, you would be comfortable with Labor having a majority in both houses I am sure Julia has a few idealogical wet dreams of her own from her days as a leftist student politician

[blueandwhite]

absolutely not happy with any government having an absolute majority in the upper house.

[redandblack]

landslides are bad alright, but a government having control of the senate so that the can whiz through any idealogical wet dreams they had when they were young libs is worse.

So having said that, you would be comfortable with Labor having a majority in both houses I am sure Julia has a few idealogical wet dreams of her own from her days as a leftist student politician

Peter Costello was a leftist student politician, too

[noone]

absolutely not happy with any government having an absolute majority in the upper house.

totally agree I think we had it perfect ten or so years ago, government majority in the lower house and the government forced to deal with either the opposition or a centralist party (democrats) in the upper house.

[Psyber]

absolutely not happy with any government having an absolute majority in the upper house.

totally agree I think we had it perfect ten or so years ago, government majority in the lower house and the government forced to deal with either the opposition or a centralist party (democrats) in the upper house.

I always saw the Democrats as on the extreme socialist side of Labor after John Coulter's leadership ended.

[mick]

absolutely not happy with any government having an absolute majority in the upper house.

totally agree I think we had it perfect ten or so years ago, government majority in the lower house and the government forced to deal with either the opposition or a centralist party (democrats) in the upper house.

I always saw the Democrats as on the extreme socialist side of Labor after John Coulter's leadership ended.

Agreed nothing central about today's Democrats. The crazy left rump of the ALP IMO

[overloaded]

The biggets problem with the Democrats is they themeselves do not know who they are

[redden whites]

landslides are bad alright, but a government having control of the senate so that the can whiz through any idealogical wet dreams they had when they were young libs is worse.

" I can be trusted and won't abuse having control of both houses".......famous quote

[mick]

The biggets problem with the Democrats is they themeselves do not know who they are

How true, they will possibly(hopefully) cease to exist after this election in the Senate, unfortunately the even crazier Greens will pick up the vote from those who won't support the major parties.

[Psyber]

The biggets problem with the Democrats is they themeselves do not know who they are

How true, they will possibly(hopefully) cease to exist after this election in the Senate, unfortunately the even crazier Greens will pick up the vote from those who won't support the major parties.

Isn't Pauline Hanson having another go - might be better than the wooly hat brigade.

[redden whites]

Isn't Pauline Hanson having another go - might be better than the wooly hat brigade.

do the words"print more money" mean anything to ya.

[Psyber]

Isn't Pauline Hanson having another go - might be better than the wooly hat brigade.

do the words"print more money" mean anything to ya.

Alexander Downer used to describe the Democrats policies as, "Print more money and shower it all over the place from Helicoptors!" at one time.

I think that was back when a Dem at the Adelaide Show display told me there should be a minimum social wage and employers would just have to offer more than that to attract workers. When I asked how the social wage was to be funded the answer was to "make the rich pay their taxes."

I then said, "OK, I'm Alan Bond, just out of Gaol, my ex-wife has lent me money to set up a business. I am manufacturing in Indonesia, I sell in Australia, and my Liberian shipping line takes all the profit in transport fees. What taxes!"

It stopped him dead in his tracks. Mind you that was before GST, which makes a difference to that scenario.