Anyone happy that Rudd is the new PM?

[Mickyj]

As long as our PM never plays dog whistle politics with race issues ever again I'll be happy.

Hopefully Kevin Andrews is mumbling "haneef...sudanese refugees...that'll fix the ALP...we've still got time to win" somewhere in Australia.

I stand and applaud Topsy............... A Man wins an increased majority and control of the senate and blows it in 3 years complete with his own seat .Grimey little sod thought the country adored him when really they were suckered by the great scare campaign last time and proved how racist they are the time before.
I applaud the ALP for not mentioning the dead soldiers during the campaign especially when one died the day before the election.NOT 1 WORD for political gain .
KEVIN KRYPTONITE takes down THE MAN OF STEEL and the way this country in percieved elsewhere and the hopefully its morals become more positive from today

Hmm....... lets see whether your so enthusiastic in three years time? The ALP likes to suggest that they have a mortgage on morality. In the 1970s that great statesman Whitlam turned a blind eye for Suharto to invade East Timor, successive governments Liberal and Labor didn't have the guts to do anything about it, Evans the last Labor foreign minister was so far up Suharto's arse, fully supported by the pommie hating Keating. At least Howard has gone some way to atone for this shameful period in our history. So lets just wait and see whether Kevin becomes St Kevin.

Look if your going back in history
Liberal pm Menzies sold scrap iron to the japanese and it returned as bombs on Darwin.
And was it liberal that got us into Vietnam ?
And which party wanted the draft in WW1 and WW2 (i think).

You can not look back because history could scare the pants of us all.

[am Bays]

And which party wanted the draft in WW1 and WW2 (i think).

You can not look back because history could scare the pants of us all.

WW1 ALP and Nationalist (two referendums Billy Hughes got dumped by the ALP after teh 1st one and he formed a new party and retained the Prime Minister ship with the help of the conservative members of Parliament) IIRC.

WW2 all ALP (Curtin was PM).


Thank you, come again....

MJ if you're going to bag the Libs mate at least be like R&B, topsy and TroyGFC and get your facts straight.....

[Leaping Lindner]

And which party wanted the draft in WW1 and WW2 (i think).

You can not look back because history could scare the pants of us all.

WW1 ALP and Nationalist (two referendums Billy Hughes got dumped by the ALP after teh 1st one and he formed a new party and retained the Prime Minister ship with the help of the conservative members of Parliament) IIRC.

WW2 all ALP (Curtin was PM).


Thank you, come again....

More like Hughes spat the dummy and formed a new party.
In WW2 you could be conscripted to fight but only in Australia or its territories (eg: New Guinea).

In 1966 you couldn't vote but could get conscripted to fight in an undeclared war by the government of a man who never picked up a rifle in anger in his life. Fantastic.

As for East Timor EVERY Australian Government from Whitlam on has blood on its hands. Absolutely shameful.

[Mickyj]

And which party wanted the draft in WW1 and WW2 (i think).

You can not look back because history could scare the pants of us all.

WW1 ALP and Nationalist (two referendums Billy Hughes got dumped by the ALP after teh 1st one and he formed a new party and retained the Prime Minister ship with the help of the conservative members of Parliament) IIRC.

WW2 all ALP (Curtin was PM).


Thank you, come again....

More like Hughes spat the dummy and formed a new party.
In WW2 you could be conscripted to fight but only in Australia or its territories (eg: New Guinea).

In 1966 you couldn't vote but could get conscripted to fight in an undeclared war by the government of a man who never picked up a rifle in anger in his life. Fantastic.

As for East Timor EVERY Australian Government from Whitlam on has blood on its hands. Absolutely shameful.

As i said lets not look back lets look forward .
Funny thing PNG was the first battle the Aussies won in WW1 took it away from the Germans.off topic sorry

[am Bays]

And which party wanted the draft in WW1 and WW2 (i think).

You can not look back because history could scare the pants of us all.

WW1 ALP and Nationalist (two referendums Billy Hughes got dumped by the ALP after teh 1st one and he formed a new party and retained the Prime Minister ship with the help of the conservative members of Parliament) IIRC.

WW2 all ALP (Curtin was PM).


Thank you, come again....

More like Hughes spat the dummy and formed a new party.
In WW2 you could be conscripted to fight but only in Australia or its territories (eg: New Guinea).

In 1966 you couldn't vote but could get conscripted to fight in an undeclared war by the government of a man who never picked up a rifle in anger in his life. Fantastic.

As for East Timor EVERY Australian Government from Whitlam on has blood on its hands. Absolutely shameful.

I don't know the rabbits around Jeparit used to get the cockies pretty angry.....

[mick]

What by invading Iraq?

I'm talking about East Timor, who were the bad guys there.... Labor. Don't think that any party has an unblemished history, they are all compromises, when Rudd is gone we'll see what his mistakes, dishonesties are? what goes around comes around

[Psyber]

Yes, the tendency to take the child-like view that there are actually goodies and baddies is strong in the force at present.

That's the problem with oppositional politics, it polarises people. Kevin Rudd had the good sense to ignore the polarised and connect with the middle ground swinging voters, who are the small group that really matter in politics - a lession JH forgot. The question is whether he will be allowed to keep his word - only time will tell.

Paul Keating played the middle ground well - he mooted the GST as a sensible solution, dropped it when it looked unpopular, then said it was all a Liberal idea at the next election! The same happened with the Telstra sale, which I opposed under both parties - and now I have a problem because I've inherited T1 shares......

[Rushby Hinds]

now I have a problem because I've inherited T1 shares......

I'll have them if you don't want them, or there are plenty of good charities if you want to give free shares away.

[Psyber]

now I have a problem because I've inherited T1 shares......

I'll have them if you don't want them, or there are plenty of good charities if you want to give free shares away.

I haven't had time to work out what they are worth yet. They are part of a huge bundle left to me. I don't want to own any of Telstra, but I won't waste money - it's a compulsion of mine shared with my family - but I don't want to pay CGT on principle either. Perhaps selling them at their peak and a donation to charity just big enough for the tax deduction to offset the CGT would satisfy all my principles - I'll get my accountant to work it out.

[Rushby Hinds]

now I have a problem because I've inherited T1 shares......

I'll have them if you don't want them, or there are plenty of good charities if you want to give free shares away.

I haven't had time to work out what they are worth yet. They are part of a huge bundle left to me. I don't want to own any of Telstra, but I won't waste money - it's a compulsion of mine shared with my family - but I don't want to pay CGT on principle either. Perhaps selling them at their peak and a donation to charity just big enough for the tax deduction to offset the CGT would satisfy all my principles - I'll get my accountant to work it out.

Based on that you must be self employed.

Employed people can't claim a deduction for conts. to Super.

has the estate been wound up yet? Possibly may be less CGT if sold before disposal.

[Psyber]

now I have a problem because I've inherited T1 shares......

I'll have them if you don't want them, or there are plenty of good charities if you want to give free shares away.

I haven't had time to work out what they are worth yet. They are part of a huge bundle left to me. I don't want to own any of Telstra, but I won't waste money - it's a compulsion of mine shared with my family - but I don't want to pay CGT on principle either. Perhaps selling them at their peak and a donation to charity just big enough for the tax deduction to offset the CGT would satisfy all my principles - I'll get my accountant to work it out.

Based on that you must be self employed.
Employed people can't claim a deduction for conts. to Super.
has the estate been wound up yet? Possibly may be less CGT if sold before disposal.

Yes, I'm actually self-employed in one context, and director of a Pty Ltd structure, in another so I can play it both ways. Probate is through but the estate has not been finalised so that is an option - I'm seeing the family accountant in South Melbourne on December 7th to work out the most tax advantageous way of tackling the whole thing, and dealing with a couple of small distributions to other family members. I'm not very focussed - two close family deaths this year!

Thanks for the offered advice.

[blueandwhite]

Quick history lesson..
Menzies sold pig iron to the Japs immmediately prior to WW2,they of course duy used it to bolster their expanding arsenal, hence the nickname "pig-iron Bob"
Menzies government was voted out in the election of 1942. One of the reasons was, it was discovered he had drawn a line across half of Aust -the Brisbane line, and anything west of that line the japs could have ,if push came to shove.
Curtin became PM and immediately asked churchill for Aust troops to be returned from the middle east to defend Australia from the japs. Churchill who always had a particular fondness for using colonial troops as cannon fodder declined. Curtin said F--k you! and the troops came home. Curtin seeing the now serious threat from the japs enlisted the help of the US, who duly obliged. Thanks to the US , otherwise we'd be drinking saki and eating whale meat and raw fish.
This is my slant on history, you will note from other comments that I despise anything to do with the British and my visit to Gallipoli earlier this year did nothing to alter that view.

[am Bays]

Quick history lesson..
Menzies sold pig iron to the Japs immmediately prior to WW2,they of course duy used it to bolster their expanding arsenal, hence the nickname "pig-iron Bob"
Menzies government was voted out in the election of 1942. One of the reasons was, it was discovered he had drawn a line across half of Aust -the Brisbane line, and anything west of that line the japs could have ,if push came to shove.
Curtin became PM and immediately asked churchill for Aust troops to be returned from the middle east to defend Australia from the japs. Churchill who always had a particular fondness for using colonial troops as cannon fodder declined. Curtin said F--k you! and the troops came home. Curtin seeing the now serious threat from the japs enlisted the help of the US, who duly obliged. Thanks to the US , otherwise we'd be drinking saki and eating whale meat and raw fish.
This is my slant on history, you will note from other comments that I despise anything to do with the British and my visit to Gallipoli earlier this year did nothing to alter that view.

*Sigh*

Correction to the History lesson

Menzies wasnt PM in 1942 nor was he in 1941 when Curtin first made his famous speech as PM in 1941, "Australia looks to the US free of any......."

The election was held in 1943 (the one Fred Daly got elected in (From Curtin to Kerr/Hawke))

Pig Iron was first sold to the Japs in the 1930s (when they bombed the sh!t out of China) when Joe Lyons was PM (Menzies was privy to the decision as Attorney General in the cabinet - not as Trade Minister or PM). Always makes me laugh why Menzies is blamed for it (Pig Iron Bob) when he didn't start it but admitedly continued it once he became PM when Lyons died in 1939.

I'm sure the steel-workers unions weren't upset as it provided work for their members......

The Brisbane line is debated in Australain history based on "stolen" papers claimed by Jack Langs little favourite Eddie Ward to be secret govt papers. Ward was eeh one who revealed the plan and was a known hater of Menzies. Curtin tried to politic it and it led to A Royal Commission in 1943 which found no such missing official govt documents:

Brisbane Line
The “Brisbane line” was an alleged plan to abandon Northern Australia in the event of a Japanese invasion. The allegation was made during an election campaign in October 1942 when Edward Ward, the Minister for Labour and National Services accused the previous government of planning this strategy.

The accusation was unsubstantiated by Ward and firmly denied by Menzies and all members of the previous government. Curtin’s initial failure to dismiss the allegation and General Douglas MacArthur’s mention of it at a press conference in March 1943 led to the controversy gaining much momentum. Ward made repeated charges against the Menzies-Fadden government throughout 1943 and backed up his assertions by referring to a missing document.

The allegations created much public controversy and led to a Royal Commission of Inquiry in June 1943. Mr Justice Lowe was appointed Royal Commissioner. The terms of the commission were to focus on whether any document concerning the so called “Brisbane Line” was missing from the official files and if so what was the nature of this document.

The Royal Commission found the documents to be complete and that no such plan had been official policy under the Menzies government.

While Ward’s allegations were unfounded the War Cabinet had put in place strategies prioritising defence for vital industrial areas in time of war. The plans were well known to members of parliament and while they were not connected to Ward’s charges they did form part of his belief in the existence of a Brisbane Line. Ward’s allegations were constructed from these ideas as well as evacuation policies and existing plans for a scorched earth policy.

http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/homefront/brisbane_line.htm

At best the Brisbane Line is an assumption based on plans to defend key pasts of the vast Australian continent rather than the Simpson, Great Western and Tanami deserts......

Probably the only factual part of B&W post is Curtin standing up to Churchill and demanding the 2nd AIF come home except for the 8th Division which got sent to Singapore as a concession to Churchill

[Leaping Lindner]

The 8th Division was sent to Malaya in early 1941 when it was first felt conflict with Japan was iminent, and were for the most part battle virgins.
It was a few battalions from the 7th division that were sent to Java (via the Middle East) to bolster the defences (and some might say appease Churchill). Most of these troops had previously seen action in either Greece, Crete or the desert (or all three). Weary Dunlop was amongst this number.

Also can't speak for the sheet metal workers but the waterside workers refused to load pig iron on Japanese bound ships.

[pipers]

You can not look back because history could scare the pants of us all.

You either learn from history, or you are doomed to repeat it.

I for one am absolutely stoked that the horrid little lying turd got his come-uppance on Saturday. I do have some reservations about Rudd, as I feel he lacks a bit of substance, but I'll take veneer and spin over shame-faced lying, arrogance and racist scare-mongering anyday.

[am Bays]

The 8th Division was sent to Malaya in early 1941 when it was first felt conflict with Japan was iminent, and were for the most part battle virgins.
It was a few battalions from the 7th division that were sent to Java (via the Middle East) to bolster the defences (and some might say appease Churchill). Most of these troops had previously seen action in either Greece, Crete or the desert (or all three). Weary Dunlop was amongst this number.

Also can't speak for the sheet metal workers but the waterside workers refused to load pig iron on Japanese bound ships.

I should have said sent to Malayia but captured in Singapore, you're 100% correct.

LL have you read Weary Dunlops War Diaries?? An amazing man. IMHO they should be part of the national school curriculum

[Punk Rooster]

Yes & No.

I was happy with the Coaltion overall.
I would've been happy if John Howard was committed to a full term- I didn't like the idea of "voting in Howard & getting Costello".

I'm not happy at the thought of Labor being in power- do we really want the Unions with their corruption/conflicts of interests having excessive voice, sending the country back to the early 1900's?
However, I'm happy to give Kevin Rudd inparticular, the chance to show what he can do- who knows, he may just finish off some of the good work done by the Coalition.

Nb. I am a swinging* voter

[Leaping Lindner]

The 8th Division was sent to Malaya in early 1941 when it was first felt conflict with Japan was iminent, and were for the most part battle virgins.
It was a few battalions from the 7th division that were sent to Java (via the Middle East) to bolster the defences (and some might say appease Churchill). Most of these troops had previously seen action in either Greece, Crete or the desert (or all three). Weary Dunlop was amongst this number.

Also can't speak for the sheet metal workers but the waterside workers refused to load pig iron on Japanese bound ships.

I should have said sent to Malayia but captured in Singapore, you're 100% correct.

LL have you read Weary Dunlops War Diaries?? An amazing man. IMHO they should be part of the national school curriculum

No not yet. Being a military history buff I have read bits of his story in various books. That was when I was first aware that desert veterans had being captured by the Japanese. I always thought it was "just" the 8th.
To not only go through what he went through but to come out the other end with such dignity and compassion words like remarkable, amazing and incredible seem insignificant.

[am Bays]

No not yet. Being a military history buff I have read bits of his story in various books. That was when I was first aware that desert veterans had being captured by the Japanese. I always thought it was "just" the 8th.
To not only go through what he went through but to come out the other end with such dignity and compassion words like remarkable, amazing and incredible seem insignificant.

Do yourself a favour a get a copy of his war diaries from the library, they are great read. Very detailed and the JAck Chalkers pictures in it have to be seen to be believed. He is an amazing man and one of the great Australians of the 20th century

[Lunchcutter]

Nope - I feel sick