tram v train

[mighty_tiger_79]

heard on the news last night the govt wont be extending the Noarlunga train line further south until all the sleepers have been done which is 3yrs away.

Seaford, Aldinga are experiencing rapid growth, surely it would have been better to extend the train line - which used to be there previously - then the tram line extension which takes up half of king william st and is always breaking down.

i wouldnt like to be living at seaford/aldinga area, catching a bus to noarlunga then the train to the city for a trip which would be close to 4 hours a day....

[Sojourner]

What I have been told is that one of the reasons that they dont do the extension is the costs of building a bridge over the river. Currently Commerical Road is a narrow one lane timber bridge which desperately needs upgrading, so the idea would be to make a double bridge for both. Yet the onkaparinga river and the surrounding area is all sand, so the costs of building a bridge are supposed to be some six times the amount of a regular bridge. Resultantly the government just avoids the issue....

[Ian]

The tram has exceeded all expectations, for every knocker there must be a hell of a lot that like the tram going past the railway station, it's often filled to capacity.
The tram system should be extended further, Port Rd would be a good start, with a spur line to Nazi stadium.
Having said that though, the train extension to Aldinga should also be a high priority, another worth looking at would be a extension of the Gawler service to Nuriootpa, that area is also having a housing boom with many working in Adelaide.

[McAlmanac]

The fact that tourists don't have to schlep it from Victoria Square to the shopping precinct (3 traffic lights just to get out of the Square) is vindication enough for the tramline extension.

[Dirko]

LMAO, can't see the Government doing anything re public transport in this state...
Electrify the train network, increase the network, incorporate offshoot O-Bahns, Tram extensions,
Build a one way express way ...

[TroyGFC]

The reason the tram is jam packed from Vic Sq to Railway station is because they took away a perfectly good B-Line bus! I am all for extending the tram line but should have been down towards Nth Adelaide State Aquatic Centre.

[Squawk]

Dont forget Mt Barker. The suburban service stops at Belair when it used to go to Mt Barker. Now with the tunnels that whole area has expanded massively in population terms also. A train to Nuri, Mt Barker/Murray Bridge and Victor Harbor would be great service to these commute-"suburbs" of greater Adelaide.

The seaford extension is apparently not economically viable. The tram extension cost $30million and the service on the extension is free - how can that be economically viable? LOL

[Sojourner]

Dont forget Mt Barker. The suburban service stops at Belair when it used to go to Mt Barker. Now with the tunnels that whole area has expanded massively in population terms also. A train to Nuri, Mt Barker/Murray Bridge and Victor Harbor would be great service to these commute-"suburbs" of greater Adelaide.

The problem with Mt Barker is that they only have a single rail and dont have the confidence to be able to programme the passenger trains and freight trains to run at different times to make the best use of the line - let alone consider re-opening the closed stations on the Belair line.

A suggestion that has been raised is to build a third rail on the Noarlunga line and then link that line with the interstate line to Murray Brige, so that the interstate trains can use that rail corridor freeing up the Mt Barker line to be used for passenger trains. The problem with building another line on the Mt Barker line is the extensions needed to replicate the tunnels which makes it cost prohibitive.

[Punk Rooster]

Dont forget Mt Barker. The suburban service stops at Belair when it used to go to Mt Barker. Now with the tunnels that whole area has expanded massively in population terms also. A train to Nuri, Mt Barker/Murray Bridge and Victor Harbor would be great service to these commute-"suburbs" of greater Adelaide.
The seaford extension is apparently not economically viable. The tram extension cost $30million and the service on the extension is free - how can that be economically viable? LOL

With everyone getting their knickers in a twist of Australia not sigining Kyoto, the State Government has replaced one form of transport (the B line bus) & all it's carbon emissions, with another- an electric tram that either doesn't, or emits significantly less.
Now you criticize them for not being profitable?
The Southern Expressway is not profitable, neither was the South Eastern Freeway or Heysen Tunnells.
Actually, not too much infrastructure is profitable.

Also, consider this-
how many people would use the tram externsion vs how many would use the Seaford/Aldinga extension?
I'd say 10 to 1 at a guess (& that's being generous).

Imo, the State Government need to extend the tram through North Adelaide (via Adelaide Oval), the Parade etc, replacing bus routes. They probably should extend the tain line to Aldinga, but at this stage, it's not a must.
One day it should be done though.

[Strawb]

The problem with previous South Australian Governments is that they haven't had the forsight for the state. There was a line to Willunga up until 1969 then they got rid of it. It went through most of the suburbs that sprang up in the 1970's-80's down there. They had the chance to convert all of Adelaide back in the 1990's when they put in the standard gauge and it didn't happen. Why doesn't Adelaide have electric trains ask Holden. Back when Holden wanted to leave Woodville to Elizabeth which was planned in the 1950's early 60's the government looked at making all of the suburban rail network electric, Holden said we will not build in Elizabeth but we will sell you some cheap engines for your rail cars so that is how Adelaide got the red hens.
There also used to be a train to Mount Pleasent. that got scrapped around the same time as willunga.

[Sojourner]

Apparently there was also a railway line to Hendon, although I have no dates on when that was ripped out.......

[Strawb]

early 1980's i feel samaphore was the same. Victoria has got rid of around two train lines in the melbourne area and now they are looking at putting them back in.

[McAlmanac]

early 1980's i feel samaphore was the same. Victoria has got rid of around two train lines in the melbourne area and now they are looking at putting them back in.

First I've heard of that. The talk is of a crosstown tunnel.

[Psyber]

Dont forget Mt Barker. The suburban service stops at Belair when it used to go to Mt Barker. Now with the tunnels that whole area has expanded massively in population terms also. A train to Nuri, Mt Barker/Murray Bridge and Victor Harbor would be great service to these commute-"suburbs" of greater Adelaide.
The seaford extension is apparently not economically viable. The tram extension cost $30million and the service on the extension is free - how can that be economically viable? LOL

With everyone getting their knickers in a twist of Australia not sigining Kyoto, the State Government has replaced one form of transport (the B line bus) & all it's carbon emissions, with another- an electric tram that either doesn't, or emits significantly less.
Now you criticize them for not being profitable?
The Southern Expressway is not profitable, neither was the South Eastern Freeway or Heysen Tunnells.
Actually, not too much infrastructure is profitable.

Also, consider this-
how many people would use the tram externsion vs how many would use the Seaford/Aldinga extension?
I'd say 10 to 1 at a guess (& that's being generous).

Imo, the State Government need to extend the tram through North Adelaide (via Adelaide Oval), the Parade etc, replacing bus routes. They probably should extend the tain line to Aldinga, but at this stage, it's not a must.
One day it should be done though.

Unless of course you count the emissions involved in the productions of electricity - commonly by burning coal. We may need nuclear power or effective fuel cells to solve that one.

A recent article in an ecology column in "House & Garden" pointed out that electricity production for heating produced massively more emissions than burning wood in a conbustion heater - but I have not checked the author's sources myself. From memory, they suggested 40Kg of "greeenhouse gasses" for wood in a combustion heater, 995Kg for gas heating, and 3.4 tonnes for electricity for the same heat output.

Of course there may be efficiency savings at the tram end to help counter the cost of producing and distributing electricity

[therisingblues]

Unless of course you count the emissions involved in the productions of electricity - commonly by burning coal. We may need nuclear power or effective fuel cells to solve that one.

A recent article in an ecology column in "House & Garden" pointed out that electricity production for heating produced massively more emissions than burning wood in a conbustion heater - but I have not checked the author's sources myself. From memory, they suggested 40Kg of "greeenhouse gasses" for wood in a combustion heater, 995Kg for gas heating, and 3.4 tonnes for electricity for the same heat output.

Of course there may be efficiency savings at the tram end to help counter the cost of producing and distributing electricity

I'd also be interested in the sources of that author. Those figures are almost unbelievable.
I read somewhere that with transport, the CO2 output of an electrically run vehicle is about the same as one run on gas, if the electricity was produced by burning coal. The beauty of getting vehicles onto direct electricity though, is that it at least goes part of the way to getting them onto an energy that is potentially clean. We just need to take the next step and make clean electricty.

[Psyber]

Best independent source found: I guess this would be parallelled in energy for transport.

http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/yourhome/t ... l/fs44.htm

Comparison of Central Heating System

System type................................................Running cost..................Greenhouse Emissions

Hydronic zoned with wood / solar.....................low..............................very low
heat source.

High efficiency ducted natural gas....................low..............................low

Hydronic zoned natural gas or..........................low..............................low

Heat Pump.

Ducted reverse cycle heat pump.......................medium........................medium

In-slab off-peak electric......................................medium........................high


The table above assumes well designed and efficiently operated systems. Running costs and greenhouse emissions are general and you should obtain expert advice before making decisions on which type is best for you.

Electric systems may produce high greenhouse emissions - up to six times as much as an efficient gas central heating system.

[Peterxtc]

The tram has exceeded all expectations, for every knocker there must be a hell of a lot that like the tram going past the railway station, it's often filled to capacity.
The tram system should be extended further, Port Rd would be a good start, with a spur line to Nazi stadium.

It will do in years to come. Right up the middle of port Rd (in the space left for a never build cannal).

[Dogwatcher]

Bloody trains - use to hate catching them from Elizabeth. Never on time. Seems nothing's changed either.

[Strawb]

they are looking at extending the line past epping good Idea if you ask me.

[Punk Rooster]

they are looking at extending the line past epping good Idea if you ask me.

that's superb Strawb07- just what the people of SA need...