Teachers, an absolute JOKE

[once_were_warriors]

Could the state teachers out there please inform me of the total package received by teachers. Not having a crack , just would like to know the break up. Wage is one component, however conditions such as super and what teachers can salary sacrifice into all have a monetary value.

For a 10 year teacher I would think total package should be in the order of $ 90K-100K to constitute as a fair and reasonable deal.

Package consisting of : Only my guess next to each item here .

Salary 65 K?
Super 9%?
Salary Sacrifice alternatives ?
Annual Leave 4 weeks?
Sick Leave 8 days?
Carers Leave 2 days?
Maternity leave 3 Months paid?
Study Leave etc. ?

[Ian]

For a 10 year teacher I would think total package should be in the order of $ 90K-100K to constitute as a fair and reasonable deal.

Packages of that magnitude should only be performance based, I've seen a couple of 20 year teachers that do not deserve 1/2 of that, yet I have seen 5 year teachers that probably deserve close to that.
I'm not sure exactly how the performance would be determined though, would be a difficult thing to do but if it were possible some that are just along for the ride, or seeing out time to retirement may actually make the effort to do what is best for the kids.

[MagicKiwi]

Four weeks annual leave? Where did you come up with that o_w_w?

Reakon there's a teachers thread here already somewhere - cue Spelly.

[once_were_warriors]

Four weeks annual leave? Where did you come up with that o_w_w?

Reakon there's a teachers thread here already somewhere - cue Spelly.

4 weeks annual is standard annual leave regardless of private vs public.

Thats why I am asking the questions.

If teachers get say 6 weeks annual leave then this should be factored into the package, ie if on 65 K, 2 weeks additional leave equates to 2.5K equivalent salary etc etc

[Mic]

Could the state teachers out there please inform me of the total package received by teachers. Not having a crack , just would like to know the break up. Wage is one component, however conditions such as super and what teachers can salary sacrifice into all have a monetary value.

For a 10 year teacher I would think total package should be in the order of $ 90K-100K to constitute as a fair and reasonable deal.

Package consisting of : Only my guess next to each item here .

Salary 65 K? Correct, if you have taught for more than 7 years.
Super 9%? I think it´s about that.
Salary Sacrifice alternatives ? There are some but I have no idea about them.
Annual Leave 4 weeks? Not sure what you mean.
Sick Leave 8 days? About 8 to 10 I believe. I do not know many who use all these as taking a sick day results in more work.
Carers Leave 2 days? I think it´s about that.
Maternity leave 3 Months paid? Possibly, at least 2.
Study Leave etc. ?Not that I´m aware of, apart from a Training and Development Course for a day up to a week.

Sorry, I couldn´t be more helpful, I don´t pay much attention to these things.

[Mic]

Could the state teachers out there please inform me of the total package received by teachers. Not having a crack , just would like to know the break up. Wage is one component, however conditions such as super and what teachers can salary sacrifice into all have a monetary value.

For a 10 year teacher I would think total package should be in the order of $ 90K-100K to constitute as a fair and reasonable deal.

Package consisting of : Only my guess next to each item here .

Salary 65 K? Correct, if you have taught for more than 7 years. Teachers who have completed the loooong process of classifying as an Advanced Teacher get another couple grand a year. coordinators are on about 70K I think. Assistant\Deputy Principals about 75K+, and Principals about 80K to 95K depending on their school classification\size.
Super 9%? I think it´s about that. Not sure.
Salary Sacrifice alternatives ? There are some but I have no idea about them.
Annual Leave 4 weeks? Not sure what you mean. School holidays are about 11 weeks long a year.
Sick Leave 8 days? About 8 to 10 I believe. I do not know many who use all these as taking a sick day results in more work.
Carers Leave 2 days? I think it´s about that.
Maternity leave 3 Months paid? Possibly, at least 2.
Study Leave etc. ?Not that I´m aware of, apart from a Training and Development Course for a day up to a week.

Sorry, I couldn´t be more helpful, I don´t pay much attention to these things.

[saintal]

Teacher's earn 55k to 70k depending on experience. Most work long hours, barely have a break during the day, have a rediculous amount of after hours training, have to put up with shi*t from kids and parents, and have to deal with incompetent principals.

Dont get sucked in to the thought that they all knock off at 3:30 and have 12 weeks a year off

My partner is a teacher and I work for the Ed department (and have to deal with ignorant principal's regularly , so I guess I can speak from some experience.

Having said all that, there really are some shocking teachers out there, but I guess you are going to get that in every profession.

[Dutchy]

21% even over 3 years is unrealistic...probably want more holidays?

Serious question - Do teachers have perfomance reviews? Are they assessed on parent/student feedback? I would suggest they should receive a base wage with attractive bonuses based on Principal reviews using feedback from stakeholders...

Is there any pay difference between public and private schools?

[zipzap]

This has been a really great, balanced thread and a credit to the posters on this site IMO.

Gawd, I caught a bit of 5AA talkback today and if that is a true reflection of society then we are truly stuffed. As for Chris Kenny? His small-minded, biased attitude was hung out for all to see - and most agreed with him sadly. My favourite bit was when he crossed to Mike Smithson an hour before the rally and they were laughing that the crowd was disappointingly small (cue jokes about teachers sleeping in) and the rally was a complete flop. An hour before it started. Idiots.

PS Of course 21% is unrealistic but I guess the union feels it has to start somewhere and work its way down. FWIW I don't think the strike achieved anything - both sides are just flexing muscles but will eventually meet to renegotiate regardless - except get a lot of people off-side with teachers, more so!

[Hondo]

I don't have an issue with teachers in general I used to go out with one so I know the hours that go into it over and above the 9am - 3.30 school day.

BUT ....

It's the f*****g union that promote stupid ambit claims and then, after failing to progress negotiations (surprise, surprise), razz up their members to go on strike impacting thousands of families .... and dropping their members' public image in the process. If they can't negotiate competently why take it out on the kids and their parents?

Memo to the union bosses - this is not 1922 with people getting ripped off for unpaid overtime after working 16 hours per day, where we need to resort to strikes and plackards FFS. Go back to the table with a reasonable negotiating mindset and leave the public out of it.

[Dogwatcher]

Hondo, the fact that members of the medical profession are quitting their jobs, while others are talking about striking, probably suggests that a strike is not an over reaction on the teachers' behalf.
The government has shown no leeway and from what I understand this 'negotiation' has been going on for about three years.
This isn't just about the money as certain elements of the media would have it either....

[once_were_warriors]

Well from what I've read and investigated I think they do have a claim in regards to their salary I would think 15% underdone.

80K wage for 10 years experience and proven results ( which is hard to determine since parents and the kids play a major factor in the education) would be a fair. However trying to base a salary on what others earn in other states doesn't stack up.
Cost of living , housing prices etc are a lot less in Adelaide.
I could earn another 40K if I went to Sydney, 60K on a mine site, 150K in Dubai ,but I choose Adelaide

Teachers should realise that for any proffesion 50 hours plus a week is usually called upon, training and updating of skills should be undertaken in the majority at his or her own time.

Tradesman work stupid hours , weekends etc so everyone at the moment is in a similar position in regards to workload.

The main problem I see with the teachers salary and the public service in general , is that everyone regardless of talent is fixed to a finite level of stature regardless of whether you are average or exceptional in your field.

[Dogwatcher]

The main problem I see with the teachers salary and the public service in general , is that everyone regardless of talent is fixed to a finite level of stature regardless of whether you are average or exceptional in your field.

I agree very heavily with that statement.

[Hondo]

Hondo, the fact that members of the medical profession are quitting their jobs, while others are talking about striking, probably suggests that a strike is not an over reaction on the teachers' behalf.

To me, it suggests both unions are working together and using similar tactics to help each other's cause. I don't think one group's actions in any way justify the other. To me, they are as bad as each other.

I am not against tough negotiations - I have seen many tough pay negotiations in my time - it's the strikes I object to. It's an issue between the teachers/doctors and the govt - don't involve the kids or the patients just because you can't sort it out. FIND A WAY to sort it out.

IMO

[Psyber]

The poliies and bureaucrats know that everbody should be paid much less than MPs and administrative desk jockeys, and they have been slowly whittling down all the professions for years, eroding both income and independence. Nurses first, then teachers, then the rest.

Then of course they need to keep everyone down to maintain parity. The Police have them over a barrel though because of their role as revenue officers for the states!

[Ian]

The main problem I see with the teachers salary and the public service in general , is that everyone regardless of talent is fixed to a finite level of stature regardless of whether you are average or exceptional in your field.

Couldn't agree more

[zipzap]

The main problem I see with the teachers salary and the public service in general , is that everyone regardless of talent is fixed to a finite level of stature regardless of whether you are average or exceptional in your field.

I agree very heavily with that statement.

Absolutely spot on. And it's why the strike bugs me because this was not addressed.

[Ian]

The poliies and bureaucrats know that everbody should be paid much less than MPs and administrative desk jockeys, and they have been slowly whittling down all the professions for years, eroding both income and independence. Nurses first, then teachers, then the rest.

When I started my current job in the public service (which requires trade qualifications) about 12 years ago we were on similar money to a workshop supervisor in the private sector, now a lot of tradespersons earn more, the supervisors a hell of a lot more, as well as additional perks that aren't allowed within the govt. system. Now they are wondering why they can't attract trades persons to the position, let alone retain the ones they currently have, the past 4-5 years there has always been 3-7 positions vacant out of 18, last intake they couldn't fill 3 of the 6 vacancies. I had more "spare cash" when I earned $15k less.

[The Big Shrek]

The poliies and bureaucrats know that everbody should be paid much less than MPs and administrative desk jockeys, and they have been slowly whittling down all the professions for years, eroding both income and independence. Nurses first, then teachers, then the rest.

Then of course they need to keep everyone down to maintain parity. The Police have them over a barrel though because of their role as revenue officers for the states!

That is probably one of the best posts on this forum. Eroding the idependence of the professions, spot on.

[southee]

AAMI stadium/Tram extention or more money/better conditions to Teachers and Doctors......mmmmmm...tough choice there!!!