Good Riddance

[smac]

No prejudice here Psyber. I think his mother is a fantastic person a "true" liberal. Not someone who sold their soul to John Howard's "drys" like her son did.

I disagreed with him to his face about both the workplace arrangements and the handling of the David Hicks affair and he was civil about it, if non-commital.

His dilemma was that having stood down from the leadership in favour of John Howard, for what he saw at the time as the greater good, and pledged loyalty in doing so to JH's leadership, he was, in his view, bound to honour that committment and not sow dissension in the party. I think he genuinely believed in the rightness of most of the policies, and declined to comment when he disagreed, as part of that pledge of loyalty. Had JH stepped down in office and another leader taken over then he would have been free to speak his mind.

Personally, I favour a less right wing position than was manifest in government under either Howard, or Hawke/Keating.

That's were we differ. No dilemma in my book. You either have a backbone or you don't. Downer quite clearly doesn't same as his mate Costello.

So someone who disagrees with a policy of their employer must state so publicly? You're smarter than that, LL.

[The Big Shrek]

I'm sorry smac, if he wasn't into union/refugee/iraq bashing, what was he doing in the liberal party?

[am Bays]

I'm sorry smac, if he wasn't into union/refugee/iraq bashing, what was he doing in the liberal party?

Yeah 'cause all of us who have been members of or vote Liberal bash unions/refugees/Iraqi's...

Just a tad generalistic don't u think Shrek? Mind you at the minute I think I prefer Downers philosophies and behaviours to Belinda Neal's and Della Bosca's - preversion of justice anyone???

[The Big Shrek]

Sorry, most people in the liberal party are about making rich people richer and poor people poorer. They just ignore the other stuff.

[mick]

Sorry, most people in the liberal party are about making rich people richer and poor people poorer. They just ignore the other stuff.

Rich people and people who want to be rich are an asset to the Nation. Those who sit on their bums and want the government to look after them are not. We'll see how important Iraq and the illegal immigrants are to most people when the economy goes down the tubes.

[Q.]

We'll see how important Iraq and the illegal immigrants are to most people when the economy goes down the tubes.

Maybe then people will fathom an inkling of what it's like to have f*ck all and comprehend the things you might do to escape that.

[Psyber]

Sorry, most people in the liberal party are about making rich people richer and poor people poorer. They just ignore the other stuff.

I've made most of my money out of real estate inflation under federal Labor governments....
[Yeah I wasn't going to continue arguing but I couldn't resist injecting a little real experience.]

[mick]

Sorry, most people in the liberal party are about making rich people richer and poor people poorer. They just ignore the other stuff.

I've made most of my money out of real estate inflation under federal Labor governments....
[Yeah I wasn't going to continue arguing but I couldn't resist injecting a little real experience.]

How true, my father who was a real estate agent made squillions during the high inflation years, but said although he never voted Labor in his life, owed much of what he had to Messrs Whitlam, Hawke and Keating. An ANZ economist is predicting real-estate prices will explode in the near future due to a chronic under-supply of housing in Australia and people looking to invest outside the stockmarket. Maybe we can add Kevin07 to the holy trinity (above) of real estate booms.

[mick]

Sorry, most people in the liberal party are about making rich people richer and poor people poorer. They just ignore the other stuff.

I've made most of my money out of real estate inflation under federal Labor governments....
[Yeah I wasn't going to continue arguing but I couldn't resist injecting a little real experience.]

How true, my father who was a real estate agent made squillions during the high inflation years, but said although he never voted Labor in his life, owed much of what he had to Messrs Whitlam, Hawke and Keating. An ANZ economist is predicting real-estate prices will explode in the near future due to a chronic under-supply of housing in Australia and people looking to invest outside the stockmarket. Maybe we can add Kevin07 to the holy trinity (above) of real estate booms. To be balanced John Howard should also get an honourable mention, house prices rose in his watch even with low inflation

[am Bays]

Sorry, most people in the liberal party are about making rich people richer and poor people poorer. They just ignore the other stuff.

Sorry, and your experience in the Liberal party?

In my time in the Liberal party I can honestly say the vast majority were hard working decent people who believe in the fair go. I'm not saying all are like that as their are the equivalent of the silver spoons brigade and far right conservatives who in my eyes are the equivalent of the looney left that occupies positions of power in the Labour party.

I'm just loving your generalisations Shrek. Could I suggest you attend a few local meetings of your local Liberal party to see how wrong your assumptions are.

[Q.]

I don't think anyone doubts the good intentions of those behind-the-scenes folk in local politics.

Coalition policy has long been influenced and dominated by the hardcore right-wing faction that exists in NSW. Tow their party lines or kiss goodbye to any aspirations of being a front-bencher. Hence, at the Federal level and in NSW, there have always been Liberal Party politicians of the same mold, inherently racist, sexist, homophobic and class-separatist. This faction and its influence on Australian politics has been well documented in independent media.

Downer (and others) may well be forward thinking outside the boundaries of his party, but while there he well and truly fell in line. He is spineless. Like most of them.

[Q.]

...

[Psyber]

Quichey, that was a joke shot for the "Guess whose legs.." thing the Advertiser ran years ago.

He demonstrated he is not pompous, and doesn't take himself too seriously to do something a little "out there" for a quirky thing the Advertiser was running, and your ilk try to turn it into a suggestion the guy is some sort of pervert or has bad judgement? That ran out of legs long ago.

If you really want to try to fight party politics dirty, I could identify a recent Labor pollie who once stole Charles Berry's hearse from outside a funeral service as a stupid and inconsiderate "prosh prank" that caused the mourners a lot of distress. [But I won't, it would be much more harmful to his career than the shot of Alexander.]

The only reason the police didn't prosecute him was that everybody covered up for him, including me.

[The Big Shrek]

The only funny thing Downer ever did was the photo in the Sunday Mail after the last election doing an impersonation of a Kevin Rudd laugh.

Mick, you are an idiot. Blaming labour for housing supply issues when they have been in power for less than a year. Just like the libs blaming interest rate rises on Rudd when he'd only been in a month or two. Apparently he was putting pressure on interest rates by talking about inflation. He should have been ignoring it like Howard did. What a joke!

You're right Mick, there are two kinds of people in Australia, rich people and those who sit on their bums doing nothing. Typical liberal attitude. Don't worry about parents both working menial jobs to pay for their kids, single parents working overtime, homeless people and the mentally ill. You are a joke.

[Q.]

I know the story behind the fishnets. And yes, cartoonists have run with it since. I posted it because I thought it funny that Downer had made it into the internet world of demotivational posters.

What is my ilk, Psyber? I am aligned with no party or politician. I'll be critical of any if it warrants in discussion.

As were are discussing Downer, I'd like to state that his handling of the East Timorese referendum was disgraceful, as per UN analysis, and it should have had him dragged over the coals were it not for the fact it was closed door policy to appease the Indonesian government. Blood on his hands.

[mick]

The only funny thing Downer ever did was the photo in the Sunday Mail after the last election doing an impersonation of a Kevin Rudd laugh.

Mick, you are an idiot. Blaming labour for housing supply issues when they have been in power for less than a year. Just like the libs blaming interest rate rises on Rudd when he'd only been in a month or two. Apparently he was putting pressure on interest rates by talking about inflation. He should have been ignoring it like Howard did. What a joke!

You're right Mick, there are two kinds of people in Australia, rich people and those who sit on their bums doing nothing. Typical liberal attitude. Don't worry about parents both working menial jobs to pay for their kids, single parents working overtime, homeless people and the mentally ill. You are a joke.

You are the idiot mate I didn't blame Rudd for the housing shortage, we'll just have wait and see how he deals with it before he joins his infamous predecessors. However we can blame him in a few months when the lower lakes and Coorong in SA dies, wall to wall Labor governments still nothing happens lots of talk, the opportunity of the century wasted. Where's Mr Rockstar Garrett - silenced by the party men, don't talk about Downer being spineless. You are the joke mate, the chip of jealousy and hatred looms large on your shoulder, but I suspect in reality you're some comfortable middle class wanker who thinks he has a social conscience. So up yours get over it there will always be people more gifted than you, smarter than you and heaven forbid richer than you.

[mick]

I know the story behind the fishnets. And yes, cartoonists have run with it since. I posted it because I thought it funny that Downer had made it into the internet world of demotivational posters.

What is my ilk, Psyber? I am aligned with no party or politician. I'll be critical of any if it warrants in discussion.

As were are discussing Downer, I'd like to state that his handling of the East Timorese referendum was disgraceful, as per UN analysis, and it should have had him dragged over the coals were it not for the fact it was closed door policy to appease the Indonesian government. Blood on his hands.

The man with blood on his hands over East Timor is Edward Gough Whitlam, followed by Fraser, Hawke and Keating a national disgrace. Gough gave Suharto the green light to invade East Timor. How ironic the great Satan of the Chardonnay Socialists, John Howard, supports East Timorese independence and acts to preserve it. Gareth Evans our last Labor minister of foreign affairs, what a great guy he was, Suharto's best mate.

[mighty_tiger_79]

id suggest the good people of mayo probably let there cows do the voting, and they voted in a pig

[Leaping Lindner]

I know the story behind the fishnets. And yes, cartoonists have run with it since. I posted it because I thought it funny that Downer had made it into the internet world of demotivational posters.

What is my ilk, Psyber? I am aligned with no party or politician. I'll be critical of any if it warrants in discussion.

As were are discussing Downer, I'd like to state that his handling of the East Timorese referendum was disgraceful, as per UN analysis, and it should have had him dragged over the coals were it not for the fact it was closed door policy to appease the Indonesian government. Blood on his hands.

The man with blood on his hands over East Timor is Edward Gough Whitlam, followed by Fraser, Hawke and Keating a national disgrace. Gough gave Suharto the green light to invade East Timor. How ironic the great Satan of the Chardonnay Socialists, John Howard, supports East Timorese independence and acts to preserve it. Gareth Evans our last Labor minister of foreign affairs, what a great guy he was, Suharto's best mate.

Very true, but we still took two weeks longer to get into East Timor than we should have once the violence erupted. In the meantime Dilli was all but destroyed, 100's of thousands left homeless and thousands murdered by Pro-Suharto militia.
Also whilst it was indeed John Howard's government that finally intervened, let's not forget he had been in power for three years at that point. Hardly a lightning repsonse.
The cynic in me thinks it was going to be easier to screw the East Timorese when it came to the Timor Gap Treaty.......but that would make me a bitter old cynic

[Leaping Lindner]

No prejudice here Psyber. I think his mother is a fantastic person a "true" liberal. Not someone who sold their soul to John Howard's "drys" like her son did.

I disagreed with him to his face about both the workplace arrangements and the handling of the David Hicks affair and he was civil about it, if non-commital.

His dilemma was that having stood down from the leadership in favour of John Howard, for what he saw at the time as the greater good, and pledged loyalty in doing so to JH's leadership, he was, in his view, bound to honour that committment and not sow dissension in the party. I think he genuinely believed in the rightness of most of the policies, and declined to comment when he disagreed, as part of that pledge of loyalty. Had JH stepped down in office and another leader taken over then he would have been free to speak his mind.

Personally, I favour a less right wing position than was manifest in government under either Howard, or Hawke/Keating.

That's were we differ. No dilemma in my book. You either have a backbone or you don't. Downer quite clearly doesn't same as his mate Costello.

So someone who disagrees with a policy of their employer must state so publicly? You're smarter than that, LL.

I expect people who are voted in on principle to have and/or keep them. It's a crazy notion I know