Trots this week Aug 14-15-17 + downgrade rule

[mal]

DOWNGRADE RULE
Been reported by the 5rph boys that the downgrade rule starts in September.
That was a few weeks ago so I assume it will go ahead.
Downgrade rule is as follows.
If a horse has had 10 starts in a grade without winning it will get a downgrade to the next class down.
Seems to be a very logical practible ruling if it eventuates.
I think too many horses reach a class and stagnate there
Horses in good form get to grades like the C5/C6 races when at thier peak
Sometimes the horses never reproduce that peak form and are stuck in a grade

The downgrade system works very well at the Greyhounds
Dunno who instigated the downgrade system but its a goodun'
In my opinion the new trots downgrade is a good innovation.


TROTTERS V PACERS
Bayman has a golden rule
Always risk a trotter v the pacers
I declared one a while ago to beat the pacers and it went abyssMAL
Tonight we have R8-7 WrekcOgnize v the pacers
Has been placed v the pacers in the past
But gotta admit Bayman is right they are a risk
Wrekcognize is $5-50 in the press, I guess I would have to lay it on Betfair if below those odds


PORT PIRIE PREVIEW


BETFAIR CANT WINS [201]
R4-7
R5-2

RACE 2
1-4-8 Boxed quinellas/exactas/any2s

R6-2 TOP OF THE WAVE
Better than these, if driven adequately must be in the finish
EW

R6-1 LOADEDBELLE
Drawn perfectly and highly likely to be in the finish
PLACE

[SCD]

I think the Downgrade rule will be good MAL..
if you want stop a horse winning for 10 starts to drop a grade,
you are likely to be pulling him up for a price anyway, so this won't change things too much..

I won't be betting on SA Harness racing for a while... because
There is a much bigger issue in SA Harness Racing at the moment..

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25920914-5016494,00.html

Irregular Swabs....
Now I understand we have to be very very careful here...

BUT...
Clearly Ken Gully & Steve Cowan only have 1 horse in work at the moment..
HOWEVER How can Gary Hill and Rob Caruso only have irregular swabs to 1 horse each..
Wait.. I know they had this product helping horses but clearly they decided to use it on 1 horse each..

What should be noted is - Gerard Lalor had on a number of discussions with different people and told them they could use this stuff instead of Lasix, which was banned 12 months ago.

To the use of aminocaproic acid... It's for sale over the counter at Garrods Horse & Hound in Brisbane and Sydney and only trainers racing in Adel have irregular swabs...

HRV have put out a note to all trainers saying they would be testing from last week..
SAHRC has decided to spend tens of thousands re-testing old samples on a tip they got from some peanut..

So to SAHRC = here's an idea....
PUT THE MONEY INTO PRIZEMONEY and take the HRV sensible approach to warn the trainers.


One more point

Aldred said information received by the HRSA board had been the trigger for an investigation by chief steward Steve Mulcay into the use of aminocaproic acid.

Given some time and the process of stewards enquires - I wonder if the source of this info to stewards will leak out..
Will be interesting if they are an official, punter, industry participant or ex industry particpant, because with 4 Adelaide trainers and a Victorian trainer with irregular swabs, they won't be very popular....

[Zahov]

give us a spell what about all the people that have been doing the right thing!

what if your horse got beaten by one of these people who has broken the rules?

i think you need to get your fact's right before talking about something you clearly know nothing about................

lasix was barred a lot longer than a year ago! that's just 1 point i'll pick ya up on. i don't want to make ya look silly now!

[SCD]

i think you need to get your fact's right before talking about something you clearly know nothing about................

lasix was barred a lot longer than a year ago! that's just 1 point i'll pick ya up on. i don't want to make ya look silly now!

The point here Zahov is a number of trainers were using this stuff.. it wasn't isolated incidences...
If you or your mates have another point of view or more facts, go for it.. you can't make me look silly, when you have NFI...

I'm fully aware - Lasix was never allowed to be used. it's never been a prohibited substance, so it was never barred because it was never allowed.. However Gerard asked for it to be used.. got knocked back and then he suggested to a number of trainers they could use aminocaproic acid. That is a fact..

Given your relationship Zahov with the alleged..
I hope that the reports are wrong on who spoke to the stewards...
Because I wouldn't want to be the person or associated with the stable who said something...

[Zahov]

you are an idiot! show me where the head steward told people they could use drugs on horses!
you said it's a fact, now prove it!

so i guess your all for people using drugs in sport, and wanna make threat's to people,
how do you know someone put them in? and the person that did had to know what to look for?
if it was such a top secret and they're never going to get caught they should have kept their mouths shut..............................................................

WAKE UP TO YOURSELF!

[Joey]

PUT THE MONEY INTO PRIZEMONEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


SCD. You have to be kidding, reward those that break the rules by increasing the spoils!
I think on this occasion you are letting your personal relationship with one of the
accused cloud your judgement.

As for who alerted the stewards to use of this substance, i realise you dont spend much time here in Adelaide any more but talk has been around the traps for months for the stewards not to get wind of it their ears would have to have been painted on.

[loves to punt]

Coudnt agree anymore Joey and Zahov. WAKE UP SCD YOUR EMBARRASING YOURSELF.

[RichoRichoMan]

SCD... it was always a banned substance, a horse owned by the Queen returned a positive to it many months ago, Changeover also returned one in the Len Smith mile. Im sure trainers are quite aware of this so if they want to continue using it then so be it but i dont want to here them whinge and complain when the get caught.

[Zahov]

EXACTLY, and all these people want to do is blame someone else!, SCD's basicly sayin i've got something to do them gettin caught.

if they done it they've got no one to blame but themselves!

[centreman]

Next someone will write that the use of EPO is ok!
2 trainers in Vic have shown irregulatories to it. Original swabs were ok but when retested have shown up only after the Alan Donohue saga.
You break the rules, which are writen in black and white and you get caught you must be penalised!!!!!!
Australia has drug free racing thats the rules!!!! Trainers push the boundries they run the risk of the penalties that follow.

Scd cos its for sale over the counter means NOTHING. KYNOCILAN is for sale at nearly every feed store But you CANT race on it within 72 hours.
You can buy BI CARB at the supermarket doesn't mean you can fill up on it!!!!!!!

[chiefy]

that's right, you can buy bi-carb in a supermarket, but can't use it, so even if gettin hold of this stuff is as easy as walking up to the bar on a saturday and buyin a scooner, it doesn't matter YOU CAN'T USE IT!

[SCD]

Couple of points...
apart from the fact that I at least I log in under only 1 user name and have my own opinion
I will be very careful given the nature and potential legal ramifications of this subject.

The talk around the traps for ages has potentially been due to previous administration advising trainers they could use it..
However if anyone has informed the stewards and this comes out in the course of the inquiry... I wouldn't want to be them....

I hardly condone and never would the use of drugs in this or any other sport.
I find any connotations that I would support that abhorrent.

My personal relationship you talk about is 1 phone call in the last 12 months, when the other owner of our horse was indisposed.
Yes I support Gary and will continue to have horses with him.. but I wouldn’t call it a particular personal relationship..
At the end of the day IMO - he’s the best trainer with the added benfit of the most affordable rates in SA…

My issues are not with who has been caught, but with why more horses have not been caught..
A number of horses have lost their AFTERBURNERS in the last 3 weeks…
If a number of other horses don't test positive - then we have an issue...
I simply ask why Victoria has taken a different approach to SA and why no other state has taken the SA approach?

How many people would be happy the stewards are spending tens of thousands checking swabs from 3 months ago.
Prizemoney in SA is the lowest distributed Aust wide.. but don't worry, the stewards have money to test on swabs that have already been checked and prizemoney paid out to owners from over 2 months ago.
All on the back of some clown giving the board some info..
If you think it appropriate to race 1 day a week for over $3k a race - when they have all this money to do testing on samples from 3 months ago.. that's fine... My horse is only good enough to race in $2,000 races, so doesn't impact on me.

Changeover has an irregularity to tranexamic acid.
All the trainers in Adel have irregularities to aminocaproic acid
MASSIVE differenece.... go do some research on the two and how they are broken down in the system...
I agree neither of them are on the approved list.. but I come back to point 4...
These irregular swabs in SA are to an amino acid..

EPO is a bigger issue then this and you know it Centreman.
That's an ignorant comment to suggest I would ever think something like EPO is ok... EPO is a Blood booster v aminocaproic acid being an amino acid.. seriously...
They should be re-testing for EPO..

Once this is all done.. let's see how many trainers are left racing in SA..
How many horses are left and how much you are left racing for...
You will be left with hobby trainers and blokes with NFI who couldn't train a winner TODAY if they had to.... all racing for $1k.

At the end of the day - I have a job, away from horses and can easily buy horses here in Melb, no impact on me..
but let's see what happens and how many people are left standing if this whole sage is played out in full...

And BTW Zahov - I have made no threats.
By all means - direct me to where I have

[Zahov]

you said you wouldn't want to be them! why not they've done the right thing!

and your yet to prove that it's fact that gerry laylor said they can use this stuff!

[centreman]

A few points
1- Swab testing is allowed for in yearly budgets.
2- Drug free racing is a most for the sports image!!!! (otherwise will end up like Cycling were people think every horse is doped up)
3- Scd you say more should be caught, well if more people were using it, many of the horses may not of won so you'll never find it. Only winners are swabbed.
4- Sa harness racing is looking more positive than has for last 10 years. Stakemoney gone up, Driver fees up, poor drives a being questioned just to name a few. The New Men in charge are starting to turn things around so happy to let them handle the situation how they feel is best!!!!!!!
5- If stewards were informed about it so what! Its not allowed to be used, if previous chiefs ok'd it means nothing, their no longer in charge. Trainers must take responabilitly and produce horses drug free. THATS THE RULES. If a trainer gets positive to Bute can he say the steward said was ok? No!!!!!!!!!

[leftarmoffie]

Do pre race swabs show up the stuff there using??

[mal]

Geelong dogs
r3-4 dancing sid
$4-50 in the paper
EW
might have to stick to dogs after reading this thread so far ....

[RichoRichoMan]

SCD..the only person who hasnt done their research is you!!
Tranexamic acid and Aminocaproic acid are both bleeding agents and considered a prohibited substance!!(regardless how they differ in the breaking down process)
It seems to me your trying to put a case forward for G Hill that if other trainers didnt get caught why should of he?
The fact is he did get CAUGHT, and in my opinion your excuse for him is a lame and biased one.

[Zahov]

SCD, please write us another fictional story, and try and mention every other horse we've raced this season, let's see ya mention Zerrafoss, Mollafoss, kaiser chief, awesome alba and empirical. all of which one! not many other trainers could have a record like that drug free?

but hey i don't need ANOTHER BLU!(i'm not much good at it) lol!(if i did it'd run through a brick wall when the BIG $ went on)

[Zahov]

Do pre race swabs show up the stuff there using??

no they're only looking for bi-carb in them.

[powerwatcher]

whose supplying the popcorn??? this is entertaining to read!!!