The Mad Monk strikes again.

[Jimmy_041]

Both of our final sentences agree on shoring up the party faithful and polarising the 2 main parties.

The so called "hard right" or "hard left" (as you call them, not me) never leave and are never going to vote for the other party. Its the 10% like me that they have to win back. I didn't vote Liberal last election

Just because you dont like him, doesn't mean others dont and it doesn't mean I do

Governments lose elections as long as there is a viable alternative, and this Government is well on the way to losing the next election, so I dont agree with you. I can tell you that the Liberals seriously believe the next Federal election is very winnable as Labor go from one disaster to another.

Amazing how the Federal scene mirrors SA where you wouldn't have thought Labor could lose, in either sphere, around 6 months ago. There is certainly winds of change sweeping through SA as people have now clearly identified the spin over reality

[mick]

Sticking your neck out Gozu.......

Maybe you should preface it by: IMO

He's certainly winning back some of the Liberal voters that left

Jimmy you know as well as I do that all of the crap coming out of Abbott's mouth has nothing to do with trying to win elections but trying to minimise the size of the loss. He's shoring up their hard-right base which was the point of putting him in.

Wishful thinking methinks.

[Psyber]

Jimmy you know as well as I do that all of the crap coming out of Abbott's mouth has nothing to do with trying to win elections but trying to minimise the size of the loss. He's shoring up their hard-right base which was the point of putting him in.

I guess if your orientation is as left as the scale goes, or beyond it, even the moderate left or the centre look "hard right".
Abbott is a bit to far to the right of my taste and orientation, so I am not entirely happy with his leadership.
However, I have to admit he is doing a better job of challenging Kev's lot than those who went before him.

I don't think "left" or "right" orientation is going to determine the next federal election.
The usual economic chaos may, however, as it develops again. The pattern is starting to look familiar..
I don't think the swinging voters care about the philosophy of politics, as much as they just want things stable and working..
They tend to get enticed by nice sounding promises, then retreat when the economy starts to fall apart.

[Jimmy_041]

I agree Psyber

And you are correct: even the centre looks far when you are on the outer yourself

[Wedgie]

I usually vote Liberal because they're traditionally a much better option to run anything but I must be against the norm as Im more likely to vote for Kev (for the first time) than this peanut.

[Gozu]

Both of our final sentences agree on shoring up the party faithful and polarising the 2 main parties.

The so called "hard right" or "hard left" (as you call them, not me) never leave and are never going to vote for the other party. Its the 10% like me that they have to win back. I didn't vote Liberal last election

Just because you dont like him, doesn't mean others dont and it doesn't mean I do

Governments lose elections as long as there is a viable alternative, and this Government is well on the way to losing the next election, so I dont agree with you. I can tell you that the Liberals seriously believe the next Federal election is very winnable as Labor go from one disaster to another.

Amazing how the Federal scene mirrors SA where you wouldn't have thought Labor could lose, in either sphere, around 6 months ago. There is certainly winds of change sweeping through SA as people have now clearly identified the spin over reality

Incorrect. The Libs thought Turnbull would cost them some seats in Queensland where the Libs are always battling with the Nats for pretty much the same voters. That was one of the reasons they dumped Turnbull (who didn't appeal to their base) and put Abbott in and why they're spinning like crazy to portray this man's man image of him and then he goes and gets lost in the outback. All that hard yakka stuff and the kicking the shit out of unemployed/disability pensioners, raving on about women doing the ironing and staying virgins doesn't appeal to anyone other than the hard-right especially in Queensland.

I have no doubt the government will win the election comfortably, there's no viable alternative. I mean who's going to vote for Abbott and the Libs?

[Jimmy_041]

We'll see

[Gozu]

"LOSTNEARFOSSILCREEK: Abbott quadbikes through the Top End":

“Tony Abbott barged into Hoppy’s Camp the other day with a huge media contingent and without invitation or even the courtesy of telling people there that he was coming,” he said. “This was just rude and disrespectful. He should have come and sat down to talk with us about the good work we do here and not just take cheap shots in the media. His comments about conditions in the town camps weren’t based on the facts. “

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/03/04/los ... e-top-end/

[Jimmy_041]

Interesting - On ABC radio this morning, they had some local elders praising him for coming there and saying that Rudd hasn't bothered to

[Ruben Carter]

Here's a prediction... for what's worth. The mad monk won't even last long enough to contest the next election.
And maybe that's been the plan all along. Blind Freddie can see that Joe Hockey is their preferred leader and he'll be most likely to be the next coalition PM, IMO. Abbott is a fool - some love him but it is just a matter of time before voters realise he's a man of very little substance and short of ideas on policy. A good opposition leader, because he can argue against all logic, but PM ? Never

[Jimmy_041]

and another prediction - neither will Hockey

[fish]

Here's a prediction... for what's worth. The mad monk won't even last long enough to contest the next election.

Current odds for coalition leader at the next Federal election:

ABBOTT $1.09
HOCKEY $5.65
ANY OTHER CANDIDATE $8.00

I reckon the coalition would be mad to dump Abbott. I don't think much of him but he is the perfect opposite to Rudd and will gain a lot of support.

[mick]

Here's a prediction... for what's worth. The mad monk won't even last long enough to contest the next election.
And maybe that's been the plan all along. Blind Freddie can see that Joe Hockey is their preferred leader and he'll be most likely to be the next coalition PM, IMO. Abbott is a fool - some love him but it is just a matter of time before voters realise he's a man of very little substance and short of ideas on policy. A good opposition leader, because he can argue against all logic, but PM ? Never

Wishful thinking

[Psyber]

I'm still hoping for a Costello comeback - I've always enjoyed the idea of Abbott and Costello running the country.
And despite his past under Howard I've had the impression he is, personally, a bit more moderate than Howard or Abbott...
[I agree he is unlikely to make a comeback - I'm just playing with the idea.]

[Jimmy_041]

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/abbott-why-i-journeyed-into-the-dead-heart/?referrer=email

[Psyber]

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/abbott-why-i-journeyed-into-the-dead-heart/?referrer=email

One of the reasons why Aboriginal policy has been so unsuccessful, despite an abundance of official goodwill, is that few policy-makers have ever spent a night in an Aboriginal community or mixed with Aboriginal people except those who have made it into the middle class.

I noticed those who objected to his having gone there, were the "middle class" aboriginal bureaucrats, who had motive to object to his bypassing their control of aboriginal politics and communication.

[Jimmy_041]

Yes - the same ones that complain about the intervention

What are the odds on Rudd heading north, complete with Akubra and mollies?

[Gozu]

I'm still hoping for a Costello comeback - I've always enjoyed the idea of Abbott and Costello running the country.
And despite his past under Howard I've had the impression he is, personally, a bit more moderate than Howard or Abbott...
[I agree he is unlikely to make a comeback - I'm just playing with the idea.]

Yep co-founder of the H.R. Nicholls Society, the architect of WorkChoices and close friend of religious extremist Danny Nalliah and his Catch The Fire minstries.

"Costello tries to hose down Catch The Fire connection":

http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/02/11/cos ... onnection/

[Psyber]

Yep co-founder of the H.R. Nicholls Society, the architect of WorkChoices and close friend of religious extremist Danny Nalliah and his Catch The Fire minstries.
"Costello tries to hose down Catch The Fire connection":
http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/02/11/cos ... onnection/

I haven't looked into the H R Nicholls Society, but I recall him suggesting some moderation of WorkChoices, in a private setting.
The only bit of it I had a problem with was that I thought the dismissal without reason issue was too generous at employers of a hundred or less IIRC.
I thought 10 or less would have been more reasonable.

I know that Alexander Downer backed some things he wasn't entirely happy with because he had sworn loyalty to John Howard, and felt he had to honour his word.
So, I don't know how much of what Costello was doing was based on the same premise.
To talk to one on one, and in small groups, at functions, as I did a few times, he seemed to be more moderate in his attitudes than his actions under John Howard suggested.


PS: I looked up the H R Nicholls Society, and don't have a problem with its broad stated objectives.
However, the Devil is in the details, just as it is in socialist philosophy.

Aims and objectives:
The Society supports the deregulation of the Australian Industrial Relations System, including the abolition of the award system, the widespread use of individual employment contracts and the lowering of minimum wages. The Society only believes in limited labour market regulation, as it believes that excessive minimum wages and job security lead to higher unemployment and lower productivity. Since its inception, the Society has advocated what it views as reform of the labour market in order to ensure what it views as Australia's international competitiveness and prosperity.

On its website, the Society lists its aims and objectives:
To promote discussion about the operation of industrial relations in Australia including the system of determining wages and other conditions of employment.
To promote the rule of law with respect to employers and employee organisations alike.
To promote reform of the current wage-fixing system.
To support the necessity for labour relations to be conducted in such a way as to promote economic development in Australia.

[Gozu]

I wouldn't have thought you would have a problem with the aims of the H.R. Nicholls Society, Psyber.

"The HR Nicholls Society is a small but well-connected organisation dedicated to reducing the power of unions and promoting industrial relations changes that benefit employers."

"John Halfpenny, then Secretary of the Victorian Trades Hall Council, in his Arthur Calwell Memorial Lecture of 1986, described the H R Nicholls Society as "the Industrial Relations Branch of the Klu Klux Klan"

"In March 2006, Senator Nick Minchin addressed the Society, and was recorded advocating radical new changes to Australia's industrial relations laws, far beyond what his government had previously suggested publicly. Minchin also admitted that "The fact is the great majority of the Australian people do not support what we [the HR Nicholls society and the Howard Government] are doing on industrial relations. They violently disagree."

"The society shares an address with the Lavoisier Group, a similar think tank which is one of the few climate change skeptic groups in Australia."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?ti ... ls_Society

"In 1986, then Prime Minister and former president of the Australian Council of Trade Unions, Bob Hawke, branded the Society as a group of "political troglodytes and economic lunatics".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._R._Nicholls_Society