AUST V ENG 2nd test Adelaide.

[Adelaide Hawk]

Lee 1/139 + 2/35[2 wickets on the 5th day worn out pitch] was still below par.
.

Nonsense.

[matt]

ten reasons why england LOST that test match.
1. Duncan Fletcher
2. Duncan Fletcher
3. Duncan Fletcher
4. Duncan Fletcher
5. Duncan Fletcher
6. Duncan Fletcher
7. Duncan Fletcher
8. Duncan Fletcher
9. Duncan Fletcher
10. Duncan Fletcher

apologies to mal and others who have all made some fine points but i'm a wee bit pissy but spot on nonetheless.

[mal]

Lee 1/139 + 2/35[2 wickets on the 5th day worn out pitch] was still below par.
.

Nonsense.

3/174

[rod_rooster]

Sadly Martyn for Watson.
Martyn will finished a distiguished career with a 46 average, has served Australia
with fine middle order strokemaking but at 35 years old has run his race.
Age has caught up too him not sheer ability, it will be sad too see him go.
Spare a thought during the emphatic 10 minutes that follwed after Husseys cover driiven
victory stroke, every Australian player would have been ecstatic, but spare a thought
for Damien who must be caught in the emotion of victory and failure.
Martyn is one of the sweetest timers of a cricket ball, effortless pushes that would glide
to the picketts.
Memories eternal.

Don't be so sure. A good point was raised. Was he batting to instructions? If so he is likely to be retained.

Clarke has to stay given his fine performance during this Test. Watson is not a very good bowler and is nowhere near Martyn as a batsman. If Martyn is dropped i hope to god it is not for the most overrated cricketer in living memory, Shane Watson. Seriously the guy can't bowl and he can't bat. I guess that makes him an allrounder but not for the right reasons.

I was critical of Martyn today but the point was made that he might have been batting to instructions. He was dropped after the last Ashes tour as a scapegoat along with Dizzy. A few months before that Ashes tour he played absolutely sublime cricket in India. How quickly people forget (me included). IMHO he deserves at least one more test to prove his worth. Watson deserves nothing until he can perform. Not likely to happen though. Anyone who wants to argue fine, but ask yourself, would Watson be in the best 6 Australia batsmen? And, would Watson be in the top 4 fast bowlers in Australia? If the answer for both is no then he doesn't deserve a spot.

[am Bays]

Ist brickback to the dickhead ember who decided to drive home today instead of watching one of the best days test cricket from an Australian point of view for a damn long time...

2nd brickbat to the same member who at 11:30 am on friday texted his mate in England and said, "Load up on the draw, les has produced a dead 'un"....

For the 1st four days I thought it was glorified centre wicket practice, both teams were guilty of sitting back and waiting for the batsmen to make mistakes, 1 slip before lunch on the 1st day of a test match???

Yesterday Gilchrist was only standing 15 paces back, and taking the balls below his knees, two years ago I kept to McGrath, Gillespie, Kasper and Tait on a 5 day drop in track on a dirt base (not concrete base as they are normally) at Australian practise in Darwin taking virtually everyball waist or chest height. (Tait I was 20 back as it was his first gug with the Australian team and he was letting it fly.......)

Has to be one of the deadest tracks in history can't hold anythng agaisnt the bowlers for not performing in the first four days as there was nothing in it. Clark did show though he is our best pace bowler now and pontings go to man. Mind you Lee showed that when he pitches it up and lets the ball do the work at 145 km/h + he is very handy....

MArtyn if you play in Perth, buy a lotto ticket, Mal, I have to conceed to you, Martyn has not brought his CT game back to Australia and will probably be dropped for Watson...

Flintoff is a gun and I thought Hoggard was great letting the ball and the Pitch do the work waiting for the Australians to get frustrated and play across the line. well payed collingwood great innings of concentration and application.

Jones is a test hack and should be dropped comes up that fraction too early for a keeper hence his byes after giving Warney lip yesterday, his mis-chance of Clarke late today and he should of got down to Pietersens shocking throw too but was lazy trying to use his pads. He did keep OK in brisbane on a good track but a low slow track showed him up. I gave him credit for coming up over the stumps to Hoggard but his mistakes show that he is a first class 'keeper at best not a test 'keeper

2 nil to the greens, go you good things, Watson in Martyn out of the 13, McGrath you need wickets this test or teh unthinkable after Brisbane might happen come Sydney....

[Punk Rooster]

Why does Watson deserve a spot in the Aussie XI???
Not for his batting- so if it's another batsmen required, the I'd have Phil Jacques in the side.
Not for his bowling- so if it's a another bowler required, then I'd have Mitchell Johnson or Shaun Tait in the side.
It is getting tedious to hear Shane Watson being talked up as an allrounder we don't need.
If Watson is selected & does the job, then I will be the first to applaud.
It is my opinion though, that the speculation continually mounting over it, is nothing but idle bar-room chit-chat that has been given more creedence than it deserves.

[mal]

ROD ROOSTER
If Martyn was batting to Kamakaze instructions, then he must be excused.
What about his other 2 innings this summer ?
His average would be interesting in the last 12 months.

[Rushby Hinds]

Just got home...


HOORAY!!!!!!!!!!

[rod_rooster]

Why does Watson deserve a spot in the Aussie XI???
Not for his batting- so if it's another batsmen required, the I'd have Phil Jacques in the side.
Not for his bowling- so if it's a another bowler required, then I'd have Mitchell Johnson or Shaun Tait in the side.
It is getting tedious to hear Shane Watson being talked up as an allrounder we don't need.
If Watson is selected & does the job, then I will be the first to applaud.
It is my opinion though, that the speculation continually mounting over it, is nothing but idle bar-room chit-chat that has been given more creedence than it deserves.

Hooray, finally someone else. Watson can't bowl that well, can't bat that well so he should not even come into calculation. Not good enough with any of his disciplines to play and be successful at Test cricket.

[rod_rooster]

ROD ROOSTER
If Martyn was batting to Kamakaze instructions, then he must be excused.
What about his other 2 innings this summer ?
His average would be interesting in the last 12 months.

Fair enough but if he is replaced he should be replaced with a player who is capable of doing better. Watson isn't that player. Langer is still in the side because of past success so surely Martyn deserves the same chance. Seriously if Watson plays instead of Martyn you will gain nothing in runs made and lose plenty in runs conceded by Watson's very average bowling.

Why change a winning line up?

[mal]

Why does Watson deserve a spot in the Aussie XI???
Not for his batting- so if it's another batsmen required, the I'd have Phil Jacques in the side.
Not for his bowling- so if it's a another bowler required, then I'd have Mitchell Johnson or Shaun Tait in the side.
It is getting tedious to hear Shane Watson being talked up as an allrounder we don't need.
If Watson is selected & does the job, then I will be the first to applaud.
It is my opinion though, that the speculation continually mounting over it, is nothing but idle bar-room chit-chat that has been given more creedence than it deserves.

The same people questioned his placement in the one day games.
He took wickets consistently
He made runs consistently

He averages 50 in Pura cup cricket against state attacks which are as good as
most Test nations.

Win Draw Or Lose Australia needs a fith bowling allrounder, becAuse when Warrrrrr
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
rrrrney retires it will be a neccessity.
You saw it today he bowled unchanged , did all the hack work and allowed the
quick bowlers to be fresh enough to inflict the damage they caused.
When Warrrrrrrrrney could not do it in the first dig, and those quicks had to butter
up for umteenth spells we saw how infiniTely harder it was for them[except Clark]

He should be afforded the luxury of 12 Test matches to prove himself.

[rod_rooster]

McGrath you need wickets this test or teh unthinkable after Brisbane might happen come Sydney....

He took 6 for in Brisbane, 2 for f*ck all today, is possibly the best fast bowler of all time and you think he is under pressure. What does the guy have to do? If he was 150 and still playing that well why drop him. Why should age matter. If the guy is still performing and worthy of his spot it is stupid to leave him out for a guy who isn't as good but is younger. Darren Lehmann is a perfect example. Are there 6 batsmen in the current Australian side better than him?

[rod_rooster]

He should be afforded the luxury of 12 Test matches to prove himself.

Why? He should have to earn his spot by being in the 11 best players in the country and frankly he isn't even close. Geez your love child James Hopes is closer to being there and he has no chance.

[mal]

McGrath you need wickets this test or teh unthinkable after Brisbane might happen come Sydney....

He took 6 for in Brisbane, 2 for f*ck all today, is possibly the best fast bowler of all time and you think he is under pressure. What does the guy have to do? If he was 150 and still playing that well why drop him. Why should age matter. If the guy is still performing and worthy of his spot it is stupid to leave him out for a guy who isn't as good but is younger. Darren Lehmann is a perfect example. Are there 6 batsmen in the current Australian side better than him?

YEAH TASSIE WHY CHANGE A WINNING LINE UP !

[am Bays]

RR up until July this year I agreed with you, no point playing an all-rounder for the sake of playing an all-rounder.....

But as Mal pointed out he averages over 50 in 1st class cricket
In the "unofficial" test spot bat off he beat Jaques, Hodge, Paine, Cosgrove and North in the Australian A series in Cairns and Darwin this year, so against is main rivals for a test batting spot against the same bowlers and on the same pitches he showed he was at least as good as them in the batting stakes.

his advantage is that he can bowl right cutters at 140 km/h so can be a usefull 1st of 2nd change bowlers....

The selectors for the past 2 years have been itching to play him, since 2002 really, when he first toured with the Australian team and made 100 on debut in a 1st class game.....

So despite my better views and opinions on the game (where six batters 1 wk and 4 bowlers is the preferred Australian team structure) in the last five months he has the numbers on the board to get a test spot

[another grub]

agree with mal.... Watson needs to be given a chance..... well Martyn isnt worth a pinch of salt lately so we're not losing anything there....

maybe you could keep in the state side Tassie....sack Manou!!!

[am Bays]

McGrath you need wickets this test or teh unthinkable after Brisbane might happen come Sydney....

He took 6 for in Brisbane, 2 for f*ck all today, is possibly the best fast bowler of all time and you think he is under pressure. What does the guy have to do? If he was 150 and still playing that well why drop him. Why should age matter. If the guy is still performing and worthy of his spot it is stupid to leave him out for a guy who isn't as good but is younger. Darren Lehmann is a perfect example. Are there 6 batsmen in the current Australian side better than him?

YEAH TASSIE WHY CHANGE A WINNING LINE UP !

Hey I don't want to see him dropped, as the man is an absolute legend, but some questions have to be asked

Why are the POMS targeting him as a bowler to attack like they did Gillespie last year?? e.g. Pietersen charging him in the 1st dig....??
They targetted him in Brisbane too but the extra bounce caught them out, in Adelaide they just sat back and waited and at 128 km/h punished anything loose...??

Why did Ponting go to him last after Warne, Lee and Clark today??

My question is with McGill a certainty to play in Sydney which fast bowler is going to get dropped?? ATM it is Lee or McGrath and Ponting showed more faith in Lee this test than Mcgrath...

it could be that if the series is decided by Sydney he might get a farewell test regardless but if the ASHES are on the line a it is highly likely that one of the three pace bowlers in ths test wont play...........

[rod_rooster]

But as Mal pointed out he averages over 50 in 1st class cricket

No he doesn't.

In the "unofficial" test spot bat off he beat Jaques, Hodge, Paine, Cosgrove and North in the Australian A series in Cairns and Darwin this year, so against is main rivals for a test batting spot against the same bowlers and on the same pitches he showed he was at least as good as them in the batting stakes.

If i was a richer man i'd be willing to put a substantial bet on here. The next game Watson plays in that any of those other you mention played in as well would you be willing to put your hard earned on Watson to make more runs that them?

[am Bays]

agree with mal.... Watson needs to be given a chance..... well Martyn isnt worth a pinch of salt lately so we're not losing anything there....

maybe you could keep in the state side Tassie....sack Manou!!!

Nup, I'm much worse than those two....haven't seen enough of Manou to make an accurate comment but have seen plenty of Jones in the last 7 ASHES tests to know that if he is best 'keeper in England ATM then Les, Godfrey, Allan, Bob and Jack have left a poor legacy

[rod_rooster]

McGrath you need wickets this test or teh unthinkable after Brisbane might happen come Sydney....

He took 6 for in Brisbane, 2 for f*ck all today, is possibly the best fast bowler of all time and you think he is under pressure. What does the guy have to do? If he was 150 and still playing that well why drop him. Why should age matter. If the guy is still performing and worthy of his spot it is stupid to leave him out for a guy who isn't as good but is younger. Darren Lehmann is a perfect example. Are there 6 batsmen in the current Australian side better than him?

YEAH TASSIE WHY CHANGE A WINNING LINE UP !

Hey I don't want to see him dropped, as the man is an absolute legend, but some questions have to be asked

Why are the POMS targeting him as a bowler to attack like they did Gillespie last year?? e.g. Pietersen charging him in the 1st dig....??
They targetted him in Brisbane too but the extra bounce caught them out, in Adelaide they just sat back and waited and at 128 km/h punished anything loose...??

Why did Ponting go to him last after Warne, Lee and Clark today??

My question is with McGill a certainty to play in Sydney which fast bowler is going to get dropped?? ATM it is Lee or McGrath and Ponting showed more faith in Lee this test than Mcgrath...

it could be that if the series is decided by Sydney he might get a farewell test regardless but if the ASHES are on the line a it is highly likely that one of the three pace bowlers in ths test wont play...........

Rubbish, Lee will be dropped before McGrath and rightly so. Yes Lee bowled well today but that just got him his spot for Perth. McGrath is still a gun and should be treated as such.