Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

[Mr Beefy]

Jimmy, where is the rest of your rant about Keating I read this morning? You brought back some great memories, like calling the Malaysian PM a recalcitrant and referring to the senate as "unrepresentative swill". I reckon he introduced most Australians to the word recalcitrant and it became common use. I also liked your verdict that he would be a great barracker at the footy with his wit and acid tongue.
You even acknowledged that he had some positives as Treasurer.

[gossipgirl]

Keating was very entertaining, whether you loved or hated him he was a great treasurer and unlike most politicians these days he had a personality (arrogant indeed but atleast he had a personality)

With Abbott you need a fast forward button he talks so slowly and really struggles to put more than 2 words together .... well that make any sense. Gillard seems to be speaking more slowly as well !!!!

[redandblack]

What were his advisors thinking??

http://images.smh.com.au/2011/11/15/277 ... -420x0.jpg

[Jimmy_041]

It wasn't my original work

Here you go Beefy:

Paul John Keating (Australian Labor Party) 20 December 1991 - 11 March 1996

Left school at age 15 with an Intermediate Certificate then entered politics
Bob Hawke, a Rhodes Scholar, said of him: "With little formal education, his intellect led him to hobbies, one after another, all his life: car engines; budgerigars; the life of Winston Churchill; rock music and, as his taste matured, classical music and its visible sister, architecture."
After prime minister Bob Hawke refused to hand over power, resigned from the front bench, and destablised the government from the backbench
In 1993, won an election that was said to be "un-winable". In 1996, lost an election said to be "un-loseable"
Called the senate "unrepresentative swill"
Let home-loan interest rates reach 17 %. Became known as Mr 17%
Said Canadian Conrad Black could increase his ownership of Australian media if he gave Keating more "balanced" coverage. Asked to elaborate what "balanced" meant, Keating said, "I'm the prime minister."
After economic figures showed Australia was in recession, said: "This is the recession we had to have"
Told a protester on his ill-fated 1996 election campaign to "get a job"
Caused a diplomatic crisis by calling the Malaysian Prime Minister a 'recalcitrant.' Even when faced with trade sanctions over the comment, he refused to say "sorry"
The Malaysian Prime Minister, Mahathir Mohamed, said of him: "We can't do anything. If people have no manners, I mean children we can smack them [laughs] I think that a whole nation, or there generally is one nation who have no manners. It's very difficult, who resort to personal vilification and all that"
Said that Asian countries were the places you fly over on the way to Europe
After Sheikh Al Hilaly's immigration visa was rejected by security officials, Keating interferred and had it given for his own electoral benefit
Disliked cricket and ended the tradition of the PM's 11 vs touring teams. Also criticised Bob Hawke for being a "sports junkie"
Destroyed the Australian film industry. Keating scrapped the system of tax concessions that had proved successful in the 80s and replaced it with funding for film distributors, sales agents, and broadcasters. The funding system allowed Keating's party to have control over the type of movies being made, distributed, promoted and shown.
Said Sydney architecture was an "urban junkyard"
Said on gay marriage, "Two blokes with moustaches and a spaniel do not make a family
Managed a band called the 'Ramrods'
Collected European cuckoo clocks
Said he was the Placido Domingo of Australian politics
Wore Ermenegildo Zegna suits
Asked journalists to stop photographing him from behind where his bald patch could be seen
Said Australia risked becoming a "banana republic"
Kissed the ground of the Kokoda track. Some old diggers interpreted the gesture as a sign that Keating wanted his arse in the air
Used phrases like: "Honourable Members opposite squeal like stuck pigs"
Said of John Hewson, former leader of the coalition: "(His performance) is like being flogged with a warm lettuce leaf"
Said: " Australia is the arse end of the world"
Biographer Blanche D'Alpuget noted that he was a great ladies man, because he loved talking about shopping and clothes
Repealed the ban on lesbians and gays serving in the armed forces
Introduced "interdependency visas" allowing same sex partners of Australian citizens to migrate to Australia
Was the first Australian Prime Minister to offer a message of support to the Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras
Said he was a Collingwood fan and that he hoped to see them "kick a try"
Appointed gay activist judge Michael Kirby to the High Court. Kirby became known as the great dissenter, and disagreed with his fellow judges in almost every second case
Said he was a practising Catholic
After losing office, divorced his wife and pursued a happy lifestyle.
MAIN POLITICAL TRICK - The Big Bluff - Arguing a weakness is a strength

Keating had a remarkable ability to bluff people. He managed to convice the true believers that all his failures were achievements. For example, after leading Australia to recession, unemployment, and 17 % interest rates, he fought an election on the slogan "jobs not GST." After alienating himself from Asia by saying they were the countries that you fly over on the way to Europe and calling the Malaysian PM a "recalcitrant", he argued that Asian leaders would never work with anyone except him. After appealing to voter self-interest in regards to fear of a new tax, he argued that he made Australians less selfish and more community minded. After trying to use Aborigines as a wedge to divide the coalition between the rural-backed Nationals and the city-backed Liberals, he said he was a uniter not a divider.

VERDICT -

Although Keating hated sport, he had a number of traits that would have gone down well in the crowd at a football game. He had a biting comic wit, an acid tongue, and a colourful command of language. With these traits, he had a great talent for tearing people down and making his own side look like heroes. While such traits are valued in football crowds, they are not suitable for a prime minister. As a consequence, Keating divided Australia, alienated Asia, and eventually alienated a majority of Australian voters.

When he was Bob Hawke’s treasurer, Keating did some good things in reforming the economy. As a leader, Keating was a travesty and the polarised society he created is yet to be reconciled. If only Keating had liked sport, he might have been able to reserve his adversarial tongue for the big game and then pursued consensus building in parliament, like Hawke.

[CK]

A good read, but the part about destroying the Australian film industry is doubtful at absolute best.

Removing the 150% tax concession could be argued to have slowed some production, but it could also be equally argued that it raised the quality of production, by ceasing the production of a number of "movies" that were little more than tax dodges.

[Jimmy_041]

I remember one of his best ones regarding interest rates.

There was an interest rate cut which he took credit for:

Reporter: "Isn't the Reserve Bank independent?"
Keating (with a wink) "I pull the levers with them"

Interest rates go up to 17%
Keating "The Reserve Bank make their decisions independent of me"

There was always going to be only one winner with Keating's time in politics

[redandblack]

I was also pleased to see (near the end) that he "did some good things in reforming the economy"

Nothing like a balanced assessment

[Leaping Lindner]

What were his advisors thinking??

http://images.smh.com.au/2011/11/15/277 ... -420x0.jpg

"I am Iron Man!
Has he lost his mind?
Can he see or is he blind?
Can he walk at all
Or if he moves will he fall? "

[redandblack]

Interest rates had risen in Australia from about 10% at the end of 1975 to 12.5% at the end of the Fraser years. So, after 8 years government, Mr Fraser had seen an interest rate rise of about 2%, from a high base.

Rates then kept rising under Hawke and Keating, reaching 17.0% in 1990. Keating then "did some good things in reforming the economy'

The result was that in the next 3 years, interest rates had halved, to 8.5% by Sept 1996.

Thought that was worth a mention

Oh, I agree that Keating's speech was punctuated with lots of 'you knows' and other similar things. Mr Abbott's is punctuated with constant ums and ahs.

The difference is that it's always worth putting up with Keatings speech blemishes, because you know a pearler will crop up any moment.

With Mr Abbott, all you get is the ums and ahs.

[Leaping Lindner]

The greatest political speech made in my lifetime by any politican by either side of the house.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhqAFLud228

[Jimmy_041]

I agree, DOC & LL.

(and most of what was before that)

Good to see you recant for once R&B

[Psyber]

Interest rates had risen in Australia from about 10% at the end of 1975 to 12.5% at the end of the Fraser years. So, after 8 years government, Mr Fraser had seen an interest rate rise of about 2%, from a high base.
Rates then kept rising under Hawke and Keating, reaching 17.0% in 1990. Keating then "did some good things in reforming the economy'
The result was that in the next 3 years, interest rates had halved, to 8.5% by Sept 1996.
Thought that was worth a mention
Oh, I agree that Keating's speech was punctuated with lots of 'you knows' and other similar things. Mr Abbott's is punctuated with constant ums and ahs.
The difference is that it's always worth putting up with Keatings speech blemishes, because you know a pearler will crop up any moment.
With Mr Abbott, all you get is the ums and ahs.

That's the shortened version of the history R&B - one just selects the starting point to suit I guess...
Interest rates had been over 17% during the Whitlam era too - I had friends paying 17.5% on their home loan then.
So, it appears, they dropped to 10% around the time of the "Dismissal" in late 1975 and rose a little in rebound later.
They were then still 5% down on the peak a few years earlier.

With the election of the ALP again in the 1980s, I predicted the return of the same pattern and was geared up for it.
I had my car finance locked in at 9% and a property loan at 14% when they hit 17% again and that was in late 1987 and early 1988.

The drop in rates came after the economic collapse in 1987-88 as a result of the "stagflation".
People then had properties were worth less than the loans on them taken out a few years earlier - that had more impact on people than the recent GFC effect.
(Back then one of my patients who had paid $64K for a house in Craigmore, and owed $54K, had lost his job, and the best offer he got was $48K.)

I don't know what the official "history" says, but I recall the years accurately because I was involved in the process.
I started bailing out of debt during late 1987 when the writing was on the wall, and had sold the property to clear the 14% loan in January 1988.
I was lucky to break even on the sale as property prices were falling rapidly.

In 1988 I was on the AMA-SA committee trying to save them from bankruptcy after its property development in Ward Street, encouraged by the state government and State Bank, suffered similarly.

[redandblack]

That's fair enough, Psyber. I was only addressing that period because of relating it to before and during the Keating years. I suppose my point is that interest rates are often out of the control of governments here to some extent because of world conditions, so a peak of 17% is, as you say, due to many factors.

If Keating is to be blamed for that peak, then his opponents should credit him for the opposite.

We heard John Howard repeatedly say interest rates would always be lower under a Liberal government. Well, of course that was an incorrect statement or prediction (some would call it a lie ).

Interest rates are much lower in the US and elsewhere, but we wouldn't swap.

Thanks, Jimmy, but I'm not sure I was 'recanting'. I've often stated support for several Liberal politicians or their actions, but I rarely see that from some on here who have different political ideas.

As for speeches, Kevin Rudd's 'Apology' speech is right up there, but when I was much younger, I heard Edward St. John give a speech about the Voyager incident which was brilliant and led to an inquiry. I think (may be wrong) that it was his maiden speech and he was given extra time. I think that's the only time it's ever happened. That's only from distant memory, though.

Oh, he was a Liberal

[wycbloods]

Interest rates had risen in Australia from about 10% at the end of 1975 to 12.5% at the end of the Fraser years. So, after 8 years government, Mr Fraser had seen an interest rate rise of about 2%, from a high base.
Rates then kept rising under Hawke and Keating, reaching 17.0% in 1990. Keating then "did some good things in reforming the economy'
The result was that in the next 3 years, interest rates had halved, to 8.5% by Sept 1996.
Thought that was worth a mention
Oh, I agree that Keating's speech was punctuated with lots of 'you knows' and other similar things. Mr Abbott's is punctuated with constant ums and ahs.
The difference is that it's always worth putting up with Keatings speech blemishes, because you know a pearler will crop up any moment.
With Mr Abbott, all you get is the ums and ahs.

That's the shortened version of the history R&B - one just selects the starting point to suit I guess...
Interest rates had been over 17% during the Whitlam era too - I had friends paying 17.5% on their home loan then.
So, it appears, they dropped to 10% around the time of the "Dismissal" in late 1975 and rose a little in rebound later.
They were then still 5% down on the peak a few years earlier.

With the election of the ALP again in the 1980s, I predicted the return of the same pattern and was geared up for it.
I had my car finance locked in at 9% and a property loan at 14% when they hit 17% again and that was in late 1987 and early 1988.

The drop in rates came after the economic collapse in 1987-88 as a result of the "stagflation".
People then had properties were worth less than the loans on them taken out a few years earlier - that had more impact on people than the recent GFC effect.
(Back then one of my patients who had paid $64K for a house in Craigmore, and owed $54K, had lost his job, and the best offer he got was $48K.)

I don't know what the official "history" says, but I recall the years accurately because I was involved in the process.
I started bailing out of debt during late 1987 when the writing was on the wall, and had sold the property to clear the 14% loan in January 1988.
I was lucky to break even on the sale as property prices were falling rapidly.

In 1988 I was on the AMA-SA committee trying to save them from bankruptcy after its property development in Ward Street, encouraged by the state government and State Bank, suffered similarly.

I am relatively young and don't profess to be an expert on politcal history or the history of interest rates.

So i ask the question what was the average wage as opposed to the average house price in say the early to mid 1980's?

Would i be right in saying that interest rates of 7-8% now with the average house price being about 6 times the average wage more substantial than the 17% you talk of Psyber?

Genuine questions.

[DOC]

[quote="PsyberThat's the shortened version of the history R&B - one just selects the starting point to suit I guess...
Interest rates had been over 17% during the Whitlam era too - I had friends paying 17.5% on their home loan then.
So, it appears, they dropped to 10% around the time of the "Dismissal" in late 1975 and rose a little in rebound later.
They were then still 5% down on the peak a few years earlier.

Don't think thats right.

The relevant interest rates were December 1972 7% November 1975 10.38%.

[Jimmy_041]

Interest rates had risen in Australia from about 10% at the end of 1975 to 12.5% at the end of the Fraser years. So, after 8 years government, Mr Fraser had seen an interest rate rise of about 2%, from a high base.

Rates then kept rising under Hawke and Keating, reaching 17.0% in 1990. Keating then "did some good things in reforming the economy'

The result was that in the next 3 years, interest rates had halved, to 8.5% by Sept 1996.

Thought that was worth a mention

Oh, I agree that Keating's speech was punctuated with lots of 'you knows' and other similar things. Mr Abbott's is punctuated with constant ums and ahs.

The difference is that it's always worth putting up with Keatings speech blemishes, because you know a pearler will crop up any moment.

With Mr Abbott, all you get is the ums and ahs.

So, you are saying Keating was responsible for the interest rates halving by Sept 1996?

[Gozu]

What were the interest rates again when John Howard was Treasurer?

Keating destroying Alexander Downer:

[Gozu]

Some gems from the Keating insults archive:

On John Howard:

"What we have got is a dead carcass, swinging in the breeze, but nobody will cut it down to replace him."

On Peter Costello:

"The thing about poor old Costello is he is all tip and no iceberg. He can throw a punch across the parliament but the bloke he should be throwing a punch to is Howard, but of course he doesn't have the ticker for it."

On Wilson Tuckey:

"Shut up! Sit down and shut up, you pig!"

On John Hewson:

"I was implying that the Honorable Member for Wentworth was like a lizard on a rock - alive, but looking dead."

On Andrew Peacock:

"We're not interested in the views of painted, perfumed gigolos."

http://www.webcity.com.au/keating/

[DOC]

What were the interest rates again when John Howard was Treasurer?

November 1977 9.88% February 1983 12.5%

[redandblack]

Interest rates had risen in Australia from about 10% at the end of 1975 to 12.5% at the end of the Fraser years. So, after 8 years government, Mr Fraser had seen an interest rate rise of about 2%, from a high base.

Rates then kept rising under Hawke and Keating, reaching 17.0% in 1990. Keating then "did some good things in reforming the economy'

The result was that in the next 3 years, interest rates had halved, to 8.5% by Sept 1996.

Thought that was worth a mention

Oh, I agree that Keating's speech was punctuated with lots of 'you knows' and other similar things. Mr Abbott's is punctuated with constant ums and ahs.

The difference is that it's always worth putting up with Keatings speech blemishes, because you know a pearler will crop up any moment.

With Mr Abbott, all you get is the ums and ahs.

So, you are saying Keating was responsible for the interest rates halving by Sept 1996?

Only with those who say them rising to 17% was his fault.