Sub Junior Umpiring - Carnival Cancelled

[afc9798]

Was really disappointed to hear the number of serious issues with umpire abuse at sub-junior level. No club, including BDOS, are squeaky clean, but some of the incidents that have come to light are amazing to say the least. I really hope this can be stamped out of the subbies culture, as from what I have been told, the carnivals may not go ahead due to young umpires not wanting to participate for fear of the environment they will be in. I've been guilty of over reacting to umpiring mistakes or oversights, but to even think that there are coaches, runners, parents and players who would abuse, threaten and intimidate these kids is very worrying.

[helicopterking]

I umpired a few years ago doing junior school football for a small fee, early cold mornings, and your'right the environent is not one that you feel 100% safe with, no matter what league it is. What I found out was that the kids just want to play and very rarely ever questioned the umpires decision,or if they did they would understand the explination and move on. It wasn't until the parents started to yell abuse, argue every decision, that the kids would follow suit, get carried away with the adults antics. I was lucky enough to be 'very good mates with one of the coaches, who apologised to me after the game, said he was highly embarrased by the kids parents and he later told me he reported it to the school, that these parents' who instigated the abuse, where banned from attending the following games.
Now, the abuse didn't bother me all that much, I was 22 at the time, and knew that the personal threats would not be carried out. But for a younger kid, you get a 120 kg male, yelling and threatening them, I can understand why'they throw it in. For a junior coach to do it, its totally uncalled for and the clubs need to step in, find the culprits and either have a stern talking to, or ban them. Even better, get the abusive parents/officials to take up the boundry umpiring and help the young kids out as a punishment. I think you will find that if the issue is dealt with straight away or at least bought up, most of the adults will recognize they are out of line and hopefully pull their heads in.

[MatteeG]

What I found out was that the kids just want to play and very rarely ever questioned the umpires decision,or if they did they would understand the explination and move on. It wasn't until the parents started to yell abuse, argue every decision, that the kids would follow suit, get carried away with the adults antics.

Yep- the kids just run off to get the next possession.

Cant stand sheep station parents. If you stand near one tell em to belt up- especially during an U/8s game. Really is ridiculous.

[story of my life]

I umpired a few metro south U8"s game back in the day. The on ly time I got any real grief was one game when I paid a mark to a Mithchell Park kid in the goal square late in the last quarter and the kid kicked a goal which put MP 59 pts down. Got called a ******* cheating c### by a few blokes, and then after the game copped a mouth full from the women standing next to them. I was nearly 30 at the time, so didnt get intimidated, complete opposite (which would not have been a good look) but thought why bother with this crap, could see the effect it would have on a young kid.

[afc9798]

What I found out was that the kids just want to play and very rarely ever questioned the umpires decision,or if they did they would understand the explination and move on. It wasn't until the parents started to yell abuse, argue every decision, that the kids would follow suit, get carried away with the adults antics.

Yep- the kids just run off to get the next possession.

Cant stand sheep station parents. If you stand near one tell em to belt up- especially during an U/8s game. Really is ridiculous.

I keep hearing people say 'especially at Under 8's', but in reality, there are no stakes at u10's or U12's level either. Scores aren't recorded, there's no ladder or points at stake. The whole sub-junior comp is supposed to be about development of the players.

Given some of the recent situations, it's hardly surprising umps don't want to do the carnival, it seems to send the ferals to an even higher state of agitation. Good advice re the parents, just needs a few with some balls to bring the others into line. When I umpired subbies, I would stop the game if there was an incident or if they were getting lippy and simplytell them the game wouldn't be starting again unless they pulled their heads in. Hard for young umpies to do though as they just don't have the confidence.

[fisho mcspaz]

When I was in high school I did a bit of boundary and goal umpiring for kids' teams. I agree with other posters on here - the kids are fine, they cop it sweet, they don't ever question the umpire's decision. But some of the parents are frightening. It's a terrible example for their kids and pretty embarrassing too.

[Dutchy]

A fortnight ago all Subbies coaches and coordinators from every club attended a mandatory meeting called by the SFL at South Adelaide. The main theme was respect for umpires and ensuring they are learning their craft in a safe environment. There is a 40% drop out rate every year at the moment which isnt sustainable.

We all got told in no uncertain manner to all pull our heads in as there have been some unsavoury incidents and the umpires coordinator would not be comfortable at the moment to put the umpires into a pressure cooker environment of a carnival as it currently stands.

We all seem to forget that the umpires are learning at this level. just like the kids are. Sure you get frustrated at times but you just need to remember what we are all there for, participation.

If the rumours ive heard are correct then it is pretty ordinary some of the stuff that has happened.

[Dutchy]

I will also add I think some of the confusion is the lack of standard rules across the many leagues in Adelaide.

I also coach school footy and at year 2/3 level scores are kept and put in the paper, yet at Under 12 level there is no scores. Ive heard in some leagues there are premierships even at under 8 level. Then there are different rules, some comps you can smoother some you cant, some you can play on from a free kick some you cant, some you can bump etc etc...

I thin the SANFL has to set a standard rules template for each level no matter what league/school comp.

Many kids play school and club footy on the same weekend and just get confused, can imagine umpires are the same.

[heater31]

I will also add I think some of the confusion is the lack of standard rules across the many leagues in Adelaide.

I also coach school footy and at year 2/3 level scores are kept and put in the paper, yet at Under 12 level there is no scores. Ive heard in some leagues there are premierships even at under 8 level. Then there are different rules, some comps you can smoother some you cant, some you can play on from a free kick some you cant, some you can bump etc etc...

I thin the SANFL has to set a standard rules template for each level no matter what league/school comp.

Many kids play school and club footy on the same weekend and just get confused, can imagine umpires are the same.

No wonder the parents want to go the biff then. Unbelievable that there are more rules at under age level than at the highest


FWIW when I started playing footy we were a 6 team league on the West Coast and we played footy normally like our A grade did with the exception of 1 bounce then we had to pass it off. We played for points but English football league style first past the post. Won 2 flags back to back in my time all coached by my old man and in his 4 years in the job we never finished below 4th.


I think this no scores policy to protect the innocence of children is useless above about under 6 level. They need to learn the art of wining and losing gracefully otherwise it is all going to turn to shite

[vics01]

Bugger scores or no scores.

In the SFL nearly all the Mini's umpires are kids no older than 15. They like the kids playing are learning the game and umpiring for fun and a little bit of pocket money. The behaviour of some coaches and parent supporters is nothing short of disgusting. No club including mine is immune from this behaviour.

Mini's is about learning not F###ing winning at all costs. Yep I like others played under age with full rules and premierships, that however means nothing now. Society has changed so move on or P##s off. Let the kids learn.

NO kids learning to umpire means NO umpires in years to come. NO umpires means no game.

Any Coach,Official or parent who approaches and abuses a junior umpire should be P###ed for life.

[Dutchy]

One further comment about the SFL meeting, they should have one at the beginning of each season so all new coaches, coordinators etc are set straight up front, not have to call an emergency one half way through the year. Be proactive about it.

[MatteeG]

I keep hearing people say 'especially at Under 8's', but in reality, there are no stakes at u10's or U12's level either. Scores aren't recorded, there's no ladder or points at stake. The whole sub-junior comp is supposed to be about development of the players.

Agreed afc, I was mainly referring to the age of the kids playing (I took my footy much more serious as an 11 year old than I did as a 7 year old!)

Coming from a public primary school footy background, where we had scoring right from when I was 6, it always seems strange that no scoring is officially kept. The kids all know who 'wins' anyways! But as vics said, our 'school' needs to move on or get out!

Back to topic- Agreed Dutchy about the meeting at the beginning of the season.

Oh and I cant believe there is a 'no smother' rule in one of the leagues! That would be a nightmare to umpire!

[afc9798]

One further comment about the SFL meeting, they should have one at the beginning of each season so all new coaches, coordinators etc are set straight up front, not have to call an emergency one half way through the year. Be proactive about it.

Yep agreed. Problem now is also that there will be an over focus on the issue mid season and there will be over reactions from all over the place. Because of the sensitivity, I also see a risk of losing good volunteers to the sport for minor incidents.

The rational approach would be to reinforce this at the beginning of each season and also to make the results of any infringements public knowledge (after appropriate investigation is undertaken). Name and shame the clubs involved in serious incidents and then the onus goes on all members and supporters to control this behaviour.

[Courtney Fish]

The umps in seniors have enough trouble getting calls right with one set of rules. These young umpies have 3 sets of rules from U8's to U12's, they will get confused from time to time. We all question decisions to our self or the person next to us but thats where it should stay. These kids have to start somewhere, some of the comments I heard from across the oval a couple of weeks ago should not be directed at umpires at junior games, especially when little ears are listening.

[MZ]

As vic01 has said, no club is immune to this behaviour so I'm not having a go at any particular club in this post.

One of the biggest problems, I believe is that most parents watch their kids footy and AFL footy and compare the two. These days there seems to be far more protection given to senior AFL players than junior footballers.

As an example, on the weekend in an U14 game I saw a "sling" tackle (as in swinging the player to ground by holding the jumper) that left a kid unconsious. If the same incident occurred in an AFL game the tackler would have recieved a suspension of no less than 4 weeks. In the incident with the junior players a free kick was awarded correctly but no further action/penalty was taken. I can understand a parent who only watches AFL and their kids footy getting confused and upset at the lack of protection afforded.

I understand umpires cannot umpire these games as they umpire AFL as there would be a thousand free kicks and a dozen reports every game, however, it seems ridiculous that grown men are afforded stronger protective measures than 10 year old boys.

I can understand how emotional parents would cross the line every now and then.

In saying that, the behaviour of those parents is still unaccepable.

[stampy]

i have had 2 boys progress thru the sunday sub junior competitions, the thing i could never get my head around was that it didnt matter if you won or lost during the season which was in total contradiction to the carnival at the end of the season. all of a sudden it was win at all costs, work that out!!!

[Dutchy]

Hearing rumours this morning that the carnival is off due to more incidents on the weekend, this time from a Northern based club.

Personally I think they should just stop the clubs that are giving trouble from competing, why disappoint the clubs that are doing the right thing?

[afc9798]

Hearing rumours this morning that the carnival is off due to more incidents on the weekend, this time from a Northern based club.

Personally I think they should just stop the clubs that are giving trouble from competing, why disappoint the clubs that are doing the right thing?

Agree entirely. Why ruin the whole thing for a few clubs that cannot control the behaviours of players, coaches and supporters. I would think it fair to ban any club who is found guilty of an incident involving a club official. I think it's unfair to blame a club for a couple of parental behaviour issues, especially if they can prove they are dealing with it, but if it comes from an official that is completely unacceptable.

Starting to wonder if they shouldn't just go back to recording results and having a ladder, so there is not this 'pressure build up' leading to a carnival. Not sure of the answers, but it certainly doesn't seem to be working with some clubs. Also could be an over sensitivity by the SFL to what are actually minor incidents on many occasions.

[Dutchy]

Was thinking the other day, keep Under 8's as is but Under 10's and 12's keep a ladder and results with say the top 4 from each division playing off on one day (carnival like) to determine an overall winner.

Almost every other comp has results/finals at this level except the SFL.

Due to the 2 years gap the finalists/winners will change year to year as some teams have a heap of first year players one year and then a heap of second year players the next, its cyclical.

While the overall theme at this level should be to develop kids and enjoyment, there is a disconnect that we dont play for anything for 14 weeks and then have knockout matches in week 15 for a trophy.

[vics01]

SFL has cancelled carnivals and will re-examine mini league footy for season 2013 and beyond.

SFL MEMO to Member Clubs
18/7/2012
The Southern Football League Board of Directors met on Monday 16th July 2012, where it was decided that the Mini League Carnivals for 2012 be cancelled.
The reasoning behind the decision:-
1. The Board of Directors and the Director of Junior Football over the last two years has been strongly advising Clubs at Mini League meetings to monitor and promote good behavior to their Club officials, Parents, Spectators and players. The League also introduced Mini League Coordinator vest to be identified as the go to persons to help diffuse potential situations on Match Day. Some clubs excel and some are not as successful in providing a safe and fun environment for players and umpires.
2. The League and Clubs introduced Member Protection Policies early in 2012, which included codes of behavior relevant for Coaches, Club Officials, Parents and Spectators to follow, however the league are still receiving reports of misconduct/abuse towards umpires from coaches, runners and spectators.
3. The League held an information night on 19th June with near full attendance of all Mini League Coaches and Club Coordinators. The information night was based on Zero tolerance policy re umpires (young umpires learning their umpiring craft), codes of behaviors as shown in the Member Protection Policy, and the need for a change in culture of how adults viewed/treated young umpires and young children participating in the game. Unacceptable behavior is still prevalent after the information night.
4. The message from the League over this period of time has been to provide a safe, fun environment for all participating, and to ensure that young children would be able to develop their skills on and off the field.
5. 2012 at this point has produced 50% of clubs at Mini League level appearing before the SFL Investigations Committee.
6. The continuation of incidents on and off the field directed against young umpires, has not slowed or stopped, the unacceptable behavior has in fact increased over the past two years.
7. The League has a duty of care to umpires and players and as such to hold the Carnivals in 2012 can only put children into an unsafe environment, which is totally unacceptable.
The Board of Directors are to conduct a full review of the Mini League competitions for season 2013 and beyond, with no guarantee that Mini League Carnivals will be part of the landscape in the future.
Board of Directors
Southern Football