Ch9 AFL Division 6 - 2015

[panthers]

I think the umpires at this level still have a very good interpretation of the laws. For me, the issues arise when they make a decision 50m off the play without a good view, and that only comes about from a lack of fitness. But you've just got to get on with the game as a player, as it's not like we're all specimens of supreme fitness ourselves.

That's just an open invite for Marbles lol

[morell]

Yeah fair enough,

Principally, my key points are:

1. The standard of umpiring in the SAAFL is not good enough - for a myriad of reasons - and should be improved
2. They are nowhere near accountable enough for poor decisions and performances
3. We have developed a culture of over protectionism of umpires - which causes a myriad of problems and limits our ability to address #1.
4. Umpires discussing teams and their reputations with a predetermined course of action is an abject disgrace - but a long held suspicion.

I think you like the word myriad.

there are a myriad of reasons why I like the word myriad

[beeroclock]

FWIW - we do now have a full time umpires manager.

You may or may not know him, some guy that did a little bit umpiring called Richard Williams

Your clubs will now have a first point of call with someone that actually knows the rules like the back of his hand. Not to many that would know more than him.

Wow.
More pain.

[shobtop1]

Can't believe we're complaining about umpires before christmas....boy oh boy wowee.

In all seriousness though they aren't that bad and it is AMATEUR league. The only bad umpire I can recall in my 8 years post juniors is the Eastern Park B grade ump who was renowned for being a blatant cheat, and even then you just get on with the game and if you're good enough then umpiring won't 'usually' have an impact on the game. Oh and they are also human.

[Jetters]

Morell you prove my point about people complaining about umpires who have no idea.

"The problem, which I tried to explain, is that nowhere does it codify, categorically, what does and does not constitute "prior opportunity". This is where interpretation and discretion come in, this is where the AFL tinker and play. This is where everyone gets confused. Is it three steps? Is it 1.5 seconds? Is it 4 metres? Is it 360 degrees? Is it different for a handball or kick? Is it different if you get it contested or uncontested?"

The rules absolutely codify 'prior opportunity'.... the fact you don't know this is exactly my point.

[Jetters]

"spot the spoilt Unley kid you say".... what is easy to spot are the ideas from a person that is from a go no where football club.

You've got all the answers, but how's that helping you?

[Look Good In Leather]

Can't believe we're complaining about umpires before christmas....boy oh boy wowee.

In all seriousness though they aren't that bad and it is AMATEUR league. The only bad umpire I can recall in my 8 years post juniors is the Eastern Park B grade ump who was renowned for being a blatant cheat, and even then you just get on with the game and if you're good enough then umpiring won't 'usually' have an impact on the game. Oh and they are also human.

No amateurs here

[overthehill]

I've always thought it seems strange that the biggest league in the state doesn't seem to have umpiring cattle it should? After division 1 it drops away very quickly. I personally don't think the standard of umpires from div 2 below would match the standard of umpires in the HillsFL, Southern / Great SouthernFL, BarossaFL which doesn't seem right when you look at the population. Hopefully the new full time umpires boss will put some work into recruitment

[beeroclock]

All this discussion on Umpys because Starky said they discuss bad apple teams/clubs at umpire training.
Proud of yourself Starky?

[marbles]

I think the umpires at this level still have a very good interpretation of the laws. For me, the issues arise when they make a decision 50m off the play without a good view, and that only comes about from a lack of fitness. But you've just got to get on with the game as a player, as it's not like we're all specimens of supreme fitness ourselves.

That's just an open invite for Marbles lol

The beauty of being a paid agrade footballer in div 7

Get paid each week to play slack f*#k c-graders who couldn't run 2 laps without stopping 5 times

[Yank Man]

Maybe I'm a dumb F,,,,k but I've never seen an umpire change the course of a game. I've seen dumb players make dumb decisions, I've seen over exhuberant coaches make dumb decisions and ive seen over passionate club supporters say dumb things. When the whistle blows that's when you see the quality of the people you employ.

[LaughingKookaburra]

I played against a reserves side who finished top 3 for at least 3 years straight including a minor premiership and come finals time were bundled out in straight sets each year. It was blatantly obvious on these occasions that the club umpire assisted them as their disciplines went out the window with arguing constantly all day against decisions come finals time. This is an exception however and its not seen too often.

[Lightning McQueen]

I think the umpires at this level still have a very good interpretation of the laws. For me, the issues arise when they make a decision 50m off the play without a good view, and that only comes about from a lack of fitness. But you've just got to get on with the game as a player, as it's not like we're all specimens of supreme fitness ourselves.

That's just an open invite for Marbles lol

The beauty of being a paid agrade footballer in div 7

Get paid each week to play slack f*#k c-graders who couldn't run 2 laps without stopping 5 times

Well educated post there.

[human_torpedo]

Lets remember while we are bashing div 6 umpires, its Div 6, where players drop marks, miss open goals, turn the ball over under no pressure, all quite often in the same play. Nobody is perfect. Morell, quit bashing umpires, maybe if your club was more acountable for there actions you would still be in this division, maybe focus on the re-build than bash umpires. Fairly sick of the umpire talk since its December and they have no involvement in the season at this point

[morell]

Morell you prove my point about people complaining about umpires who have no idea.

"The problem, which I tried to explain, is that nowhere does it codify, categorically, what does and does not constitute "prior opportunity". This is where interpretation and discretion come in, this is where the AFL tinker and play. This is where everyone gets confused. Is it three steps? Is it 1.5 seconds? Is it 4 metres? Is it 360 degrees? Is it different for a handball or kick? Is it different if you get it contested or uncontested?"

The rules absolutely codify 'prior opportunity'.... the fact you don't know this is exactly my point.

No it doesn't Jetters! It's a deliberately designed interpretive rule. Leigh Matthews, a member of the laws of the game committee, said this:

THE AFL will move to end the confusion over the holding-the-ball rule — and how it is interpreted — after the vexed issue was discussed at the coaches’ dinner at AFL boss Gillon McLachlan’s house this week

Matthews, who is a member of the laws of the game committee, says the central problem is that “prior opportunity’’ is not codified. “There is no actual definition for prior opportunity,” Matthews said. “Prior opportunity, if you want to handball it, you only need about half a step, don’t you?
“It’s really difficult when the rule book doesn’t actually give you a definition of prior opportunity.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/a ... 6994157120

here is a link to the official laws of the game:

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20 ... ll_Web.pdf

The section we're interested in is 15.2.3:

15.2.3 Holding the Football — Prior Opportunity/No Prior Opportunity

Where the field Umpire is satisfied that a Player in possession of the football:

(a) has had a prior opportunity to dispose of the football, the field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against that Player if the Player does not Kick or Handball the football immediately when they are Correctly Tackled; or (b) has not had a prior opportunity to dispose of the football, the
field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against that Player if upon being Correctly Tackled, the Player does not Correctly Dispose or genuinely attempt to Correctly Dispose of the football after being given a reasonable opportunity to do so.

The bolded bits are what are open to interpretation.

What we need, is sections like the below, for all forms of open play:

(c) Except in the instance of a poor bounce or throw, a Player who takes possession of the football while contesting a bounce or throw by a field Umpire or a boundary throw in, shall be regarded as having had prior opportunity. (d) has driven their head into a stationary or near stationary opponent, the Player shall be regarded as having had prior opportunity.

[morell]

Lets remember while we are bashing div 6 umpires, its Div 6, where players drop marks, miss open goals, turn the ball over under no pressure, all quite often in the same play.

For the umpteeth time, you cant compare players and umpies.

Completely different skillset, expected standards, employment conditions, performance indicators and measurement.

You cannot use a player dropping the mark as an example for excusing an umpire making a poor decison. The two are not correlatable.

Morell, quit bashing umpires, maybe if your club was more acountable for there actions you would still be in this division, maybe focus on the re-build than bash umpires. Fairly sick of the umpire talk since its December and they have no involvement in the season at this point

You're in the orange section torpey.

[Footy Chick]

that's gold

Can we keep this somewhere?

[human_torpedo]

I'll cop that im in the Orange category in that instance, however, I think the standard of umpiring will be comparable to the division you play. The higher you play, the better the umpiring.. It may be a stretch to say that an umpires decision is comparable to a player dropping a mark, but im not of the opinion that you should expect SANFL umpiring standards at div 6 level.. Umpires miss things, interpret things differently, some (alot) just make mistakes, all im saying is simply deal with it, and FFS dont pollute the div 6 thread with umpiring rubbish

[Bombers4EVA]

Morell dude you need to relax on the statistics and all these words that ive never heard before.

[marbles]

In my experience the problem with umps in these lower divisions is their unnecessary over reactions to the occassions when shit hits the fan

Your always going to cop abuse from players who disagree with the refs decision but unfortunately the older boy umpires find it hard to brush off the banter and consequently make further irrational decisions in the heat of the moment and the situation become totally out of control