THE BETTER CLUB WEST TORRENS OR GLENELG?

[-]

I have gone through and got as much information about the two clubs as is relevant to this discussion as possible since 1897.

I have made up a finals series played section. I am going to assume that 3 out of 6 made them in a 6 team comp even though there probably wasnt a finals series that far back. For the purpose of this it recognises a 3rd place finish for instance. I will assume 4 made it in a 7 team comp. 4 made it in an 8 team comp. 5 in a 9 team comp bar 2003. 5 in a ten team comp even tho the 5 wasnt introduced right away in 1964.

WEST TORRENS


YEARS OF PARTICIPATION 88 years 1897-1990. EXC 1914-1916 & 1942-1944


PREMIERSHIPS 4


GRAND FINALS PLAYED 8


WOODEN SPOONS 5


HEAD TO HEAD 91-69-1


FINALS SERIES
PLAYED FOLLOWING 38
THE ABOVE MODEL


BREAKDOWN OF FINISHING 1x3rd, 1x4th, 2x5th.
POSITIONS 1897-1900
IN 6 TEAM COMP


BREAKDOWN OF FINISHING 3x3rd, 5x4th, 2x5th, 7x6th.
POSITIONS 1901-1920
IN 7 TEAM COMP
EXCLUDING 1916-1918 WAR


BREAKDOWN OF FINISHING 4x1st, 3x2nd, 3x3rd, 13x4th,
POSITIONS 1921-1963
IN 8 TEAM COMP 10x5th, 3x6th, 1x7th, 2x8th.
EXCLUDING 1942-1944 WAR


BREAKDOWN OF FINISHING 1x4th, 5x5th, 3x6th, 4x7th
POSITIONS 1964-1990
10 TEAM COMP 4x8th,, 7x9th, 3x10th.


BREAKDOWN OF FINISHING Not in Competition
POSITIONS 1990-2005
9 TEAM COMP



GLENELG



YEARS OF PARTICIPATION 82 Years 1921-2005
Excluding 1942-1944 WAR


PREMIERSHIPS 4


GRAND FINALS PLAYED 16


WOODEN SPOONS 15


HEAD TO HEAD 69-91-1


FINALS SERIES
PLAYED FOLLOWING 30
THE ABOVE MODEL


BREAKDOWN OF FINISHING
POSITIONS 1897-1900 Not in Competition
IN 6 TEAM COMP


BREAKDOWN OF FINISHING
POSITIONS 1901-1920 Not in Competition
IN 7 TEAM COMP
EXCLUDING 1916-1918 WAR


BREAKDOWN OF FINISHING
POSITIONS 1921-1963 1x1st, 1x2nd, 3x3rd, 3x5th
IN 8 TEAM COMP
EXCLUDING 1942-1944 WAR 6x6th, 13x7th, 13x8th.


BREAKDOWN OF FINISHING 3x1st, 10x2nd, 2x3rd, 4x4th
POSITIONS 1964-1990
10 TEAM COMP 2x5th, 3x6th, 2x7th, 1x10th.


BREAKDOWN OF FINISHING 1x2nd, 2x4th, 1x5th, 1x6th,
POSITIONS 1990-2005
9 TEAM COMP 3x7th, 2x8th, 4x9th.

[Rushby Hinds]

One is dead, one is still alive.

Game over.

[-]

One is dead, one is still alive.

Game over.

Poor response.

[-]

You are not entering into the spirit of the debate there. Obviously one has perished. Try to remove that side of it from the argument as important a fact as it is.

[am Bays]

One not good enough to survive, poor management and fore sight to see the marketing opportunities TV was to offer in the 1960s.

The other got to a point in its existance and decided to become professional won three flags in 14 years, made 12 GFs and then formed the nucleus (eight players and six support staff) of the states first AFL club.

You can't change history only shape it.

We're alive West Torrens sold its soul because it couldn't survive on its own.

End of debate.

If you doubt me, read "KNUCKLES" on the difference between the two clubs in the 70s....

The 80s speak for themselves

90 and 00s immaterial as there was no single entity known as the West Torrens Football Club

[-]

One not good enough to survive, poor management and fore sight to see the marketing opportunities TV was to offer in the 1960s.

The other got to a point in its existance and decided to become professional won three flags in 14 years, made 12 GFs and then formed the nucleus (eight players and six support staff) of the states first AFL club.

You can't change history only shape it.

We're alive West Torrens sold its soul because it couldn't survive on its own.

End of debate.

If you doubt me, read "KNUCKLES" on the difference between the two clubs in the 70s....

The 80s speak for themselves

90 and 00s immaterial as there was no single entity known as the West Torrens Football Club

What about 1921-1969?

[am Bays]

You are not entering into the spirit of the debate there. Obviously one has perished. Try to remove that side of it from the argument as important a fact as it is.

Lets remove the fact that if their was no AFL Geelong are the 1992 and 1994 VFL premiers....

Facts are Facts, Lets remove the fact that Glenelg was the most skilfull SANFL team in 1990 but the best overall team interms of desire and skill won the flag ......

Ignore reality i.e. FACTS at your peril dasher....

[am Bays]

One not good enough to survive, poor management and fore sight to see the marketing opportunities TV was to offer in the 1960s.

The other got to a point in its existance and decided to become professional won three flags in 14 years, made 12 GFs and then formed the nucleus (eight players and six support staff) of the states first AFL club.

You can't change history only shape it.

We're alive West Torrens sold its soul because it couldn't survive on its own.

End of debate.

If you doubt me, read "KNUCKLES" on the difference between the two clubs in the 70s....

The 80s speak for themselves

90 and 00s immaterial as there was no single entity known as the West Torrens Football Club

What about 1921-1969?

1921 to 1966 made us draw al line in teh sand and do something about making our club better, yours well, at least IAn HAnna got a vote in your last game....

[Pseudo]

One is dead, one is still alive.

Game over.

One had John Fidge, one didn't.

End of story.

[-]

One not good enough to survive, poor management and fore sight to see the marketing opportunities TV was to offer in the 1960s.

The other got to a point in its existance and decided to become professional won three flags in 14 years, made 12 GFs and then formed the nucleus (eight players and six support staff) of the states first AFL club.

You can't change history only shape it.

We're alive West Torrens sold its soul because it couldn't survive on its own.

End of debate.

If you doubt me, read "KNUCKLES" on the difference between the two clubs in the 70s....

The 80s speak for themselves

90 and 00s immaterial as there was no single entity known as the West Torrens Football Club

What about 1921-1969?

1921 to 1966 made us draw al line in teh sand and do something about making our club better, yours well, at least IAn HAnna got a vote in your last game....

So over the history when both clubs were in the comp Torrens were more often better than Glenelg. However Glenelgs greater amount of Grand Final appearances which were achieved in the "flash in the pan era" equal it up.

[-]

You are not entering into the spirit of the debate there. Obviously one has perished. Try to remove that side of it from the argument as important a fact as it is.

Lets remove the fact that if their was no AFL Geelong are the 1992 and 1994 VFL premiers....

Facts are Facts, Lets remove the fact that Glenelg was the most skilfull SANFL team in 1990 but the best overall team interms of desire and skill won the flag ......

Ignore reality i.e. FACTS at your peril dasher....

That is a nothing post. I am essentially asking when both were in the comp who was the better club.

[Leaping Lindner]

You are not entering into the spirit of the debate there. Obviously one has perished. Try to remove that side of it from the argument as important a fact as it is.

Lets remove the fact that if their was no AFL Geelong are the 1992 and 1994 VFL premiers....

Facts are Facts, Lets remove the fact that Glenelg was the most skilfull SANFL team in 1990 but the best overall team interms of desire and skill won the flag ......

Ignore reality i.e. FACTS at your peril dasher....

That is a nothing post. I am essentially asking when both were in the comp who was the better club.

In the "modern era" no contest - the evil enemy is the better club/team. West Torrens only won one final after their 1953 flag (and that was the 54 1st semi final). As mentioned by Knuckles the culture was probably a factor but Woodville being admitted in 1964 would be just as much a factor.

[TroyGFC]

oNE is Black and gold the other is not. West Torrens dont exist, we do.

[Aerie]

Pre 1991 - Head to head - Torrens 91 wins, Glenelg 69 wins, 1 draw.
Premierships - 4 each.

Post 1991 - Head to head - Eagles 28 wins, Glenelg 13 wins, 1 draw.
Premierships - 1 Eagles, 0 Glenelg.

West Torrens were the better club. Eagles are now the better club.

[-]

You are not entering into the spirit of the debate there. Obviously one has perished. Try to remove that side of it from the argument as important a fact as it is.

Lets remove the fact that if their was no AFL Geelong are the 1992 and 1994 VFL premiers....

Facts are Facts, Lets remove the fact that Glenelg was the most skilfull SANFL team in 1990 but the best overall team interms of desire and skill won the flag ......

Ignore reality i.e. FACTS at your peril dasher....

That is a nothing post. I am essentially asking when both were in the comp who was the better club.

In the "modern era" no contest - the evil enemy is the better club/team. West Torrens only won one final after their 1953 flag (and that was the 54 1st semi final). As mentioned by Knuckles the culture was probably a factor but Woodville being admitted in 1964 would be just as much a factor.

Most intelligent reply thus far Leaping

[am Bays]

In 1966 we realised that if we were going to be a successful club we had to think like a successful club and all that successful clubs think about are premierships.

So in that respect we are are the same since we came into the comp since 1921 a pathetic four premierships.

We know that and we aren't happy about it.

The good clubs your Ports and your Norwoods only think about flags and that is what we think about too.

As our last GF president said after the 1992 GF, coming 2nd isn't good enough for Glenelg.

Yes we have failed in that repect since then and we know that.

If you want to worry about petty little battle about who is the best club between us and West Torrens go right ahead indulge yourself.

Glenelg will worry about winning premierships not if we have a better record against a club that doesn't exist anymore.

I you use a count back system you could argue that we are better as from 1921 to 1990 we have the same flags but we have played in more GFs, but as I said only flags count.

Given our current predicament we have enough to worry about getting ourselves back to winning premierships

[am Bays]

Pre 1991 - Head to head - Torrens 91 wins, Glenelg 69 wins, 1 draw.
Premierships - 4 each.

Post 1991 - Head to head - Eagles 28 wins, Glenelg 13 wins, 1 draw.
Premierships - 1 Eagles, 0 Glenelg.

West Torrens were the better club. Eagles are now the better club.

However given the common Sledge in by port supporters in the 1990s was the Glenelg Crows we have two AFL flags......

MAke of the comment what you will....

[-]

In 1966 we realised that if we were going to be a successful club we had to think like a successful club and all that successful clubs think about are premierships.

So in that respect we are are the same since we came into the comp since 1921 a pathetic four premierships.

We know that and we aren't happy about it.

The good clubs your Ports and your Norwoods only think about flags and that is what we think about too.

As our last GF president said after the 1992 GF, coming 2nd isn't good enough for Glenelg.

Yes we have failed in that repect since then and we know that.

If you want to worry about petty little battle about who is the best club between us and West Torrens go right ahead indulge yourself.

Glenelg will worry about winning premierships not if we have a better record against a club that doesn't exist anymore.

I you use a count back system you could argue that we are better as from 1921 to 1990 we have the same flags but we have played in more GFs, but as I said only flags count.

Given our current predicament we have enough to worry about getting ourselves back to winning premierships

Ur second last paragraph is a good one as it is the only thing that makes it difficult for me to decide on this argument.

[am Bays]

Just making a GF may be okay to you Eagle supporters but for Glenelg supporters making a GF counts for 2 fifths of bugger all.

minor round wins count for bugger all in a head to head to battle.

Major round wins count to an extent but only to get you in a position to win the big one.

Only Flags count.......

[am Bays]

Can't wait until EHL puts his two bobs worth in.....