1972 'Champions of Australia' match.

[GWW]

Coach: Mike Patterson
F: Rick Davies, Max James, Terry Von Bertouch
HF: Phil Carman, Barrie Robran, Peter Marker (c)
C: Bruce Light, Bob Keddie, Michael Graham
HB: Russell Ebert, Neil Sachse, Darrell Cahill
B: Sonny Morey, Ian Kroehn, Neil Button
Ruck: Dean Farnham, Graham Cornes, Ray Huppatz (vc)
Res: Malcolm Blight, John Wynne

Ebert on a back flank

Serious question.....back in those days, did they generally line up at the first bounce, the same as they were named in the paper?

Yes, that's how they lined up. Carman shifted to FF in the final term.

[Adelaide Hawk]

Just a note to GWW, I think it's a little harsh to be labelling Leigh Matthews a "moron". Although we are all extremely disappointed by the injury to Barrie Robran, Matthews was a champion in his own right. 340 games 915 goals, 8 club B&F awards, countless goalkicking trophies, 4 premierships as a player, and another 4 as a coach. Not too bad for a "moron"

Yes Matthews was a talented player theres no doubt about about that, but by my reasoning

Robran + Bruns = MORON

I also dont like the way he whines and whinges up in Queensland eg complaining about how the Lions had to give up Caracella due to salary cap pressues, ah der, Lethal, you only got him in the first place due to the Bombers salary cap problems!! Given how the Lions were given so much assistance from the AFL which ultimately had a huge say in their 3 in a row, i just think young Leigh should be grateful for what his club has received on a platter!!!!!

I just find it interesting you should whinge about Leigh being a whinger Yes, Lethal gave a bit when he played but he copped plenty as well. That was how the game was played those days, especially in the VFL. I have often felt this contributed to the Robran incident. The SANFL had some snipers in those days, but nothing to compare with the chaos that was taking place in the VFL. Each week, top players would be targeted. Barrie wouldn't have been expecting something like that to happen.

Yes, Leigh's approach on Robran was unecessary, and I know Barrie is still bitter over the incident. I also know this is one of the incidents over which Matthews is remorseful. I don't paint Matthews as a saint, never will. I just draw the line at calling him a moron. There is a lot more to the man than someone who belted Robran and Bruns, and complained about salary cap restrictions for the Lions.

[Leaping Lindner]

Coach: Mike Patterson
F: Rick Davies, Max James, Terry Von Bertouch
HF: Phil Carman, Barrie Robran, Peter Marker (c)
C: Bruce Light, Bob Keddie, Michael Graham
HB: Russell Ebert, Neil Sachse, Darrell Cahill
B: Sonny Morey, Ian Kroehn, Neil Button
Ruck: Dean Farnham, Graham Cornes, Ray Huppatz (vc)
Res: Malcolm Blight, John Wynne

Ebert on a back flank

Serious question.....back in those days, did they generally line up at the first bounce, the same as they were named in the paper?

Yes, that's how they lined up. Carman shifted to FF in the final term.

That alone speaks volumes for the talent in this team.
It's the first time I've taken a close look at that team for a while. That is an awesome line up. Interesting that James is a FF but both Whelan and D.Sasche went onto kick 100+ that year.
Usually players stuck pretty much to their positions in those days but occassionally players would get a "run on the ball".

[GWW]

Just a note to GWW, I think it's a little harsh to be labelling Leigh Matthews a "moron". Although we are all extremely disappointed by the injury to Barrie Robran, Matthews was a champion in his own right. 340 games 915 goals, 8 club B&F awards, countless goalkicking trophies, 4 premierships as a player, and another 4 as a coach. Not too bad for a "moron"

Yes Matthews was a talented player theres no doubt about about that, but by my reasoning

Robran + Bruns = MORON

I also dont like the way he whines and whinges up in Queensland eg complaining about how the Lions had to give up Caracella due to salary cap pressues, ah der, Lethal, you only got him in the first place due to the Bombers salary cap problems!! Given how the Lions were given so much assistance from the AFL which ultimately had a huge say in their 3 in a row, i just think young Leigh should be grateful for what his club has received on a platter!!!!!

I just find it interesting you should whinge about Leigh being a whinger Yes, Lethal gave a bit when he played but he copped plenty as well. That was how the game was played those days, especially in the VFL. I have often felt this contributed to the Robran incident. The SANFL had some snipers in those days, but nothing to compare with the chaos that was taking place in the VFL. Each week, top players would be targeted. Barrie wouldn't have been expecting something like that to happen.

Yes, Leigh's approach on Robran was unecessary, and I know Barrie is still bitter over the incident. I also know this is one of the incidents over which Matthews is remorseful. I don't paint Matthews as a saint, never will. I just draw the line at calling him a moron. There is a lot more to the man than someone who belted Robran and Bruns, and complained about salary cap restrictions for the Lions.

Fair enough, but i'm entitled to my opinion, just like anyone else, i just dont like the guy. Plenty of people on this forum dont like my footy idols, but hey thats life

[Wedgie]

Coach: Mike Patterson
F: Rick Davies, Max James, Terry Von Bertouch
HF: Phil Carman, Barrie Robran, Peter Marker (c)
C: Bruce Light, Bob Keddie, Michael Graham
HB: Russell Ebert, Neil Sachse, Darrell Cahill
B: Sonny Morey, Ian Kroehn, Neil Button
Ruck: Dean Farnham, Graham Cornes, Ray Huppatz (vc)
Res: Malcolm Blight, John Wynne

WOW!!!
What a side, thanks heaps for that AH!

[Adelaide Hawk]

Fair enough, but i'm entitled to my opinion, just like anyone else, i just dont like the guy. Plenty of people on this forum dont like my footy idols, but hey thats life

And I have no problem with that. Good debate.

Cheers

[drebin]

I think what Leigh Matthews did late in that game in Sydney in 1974 was unforgivable and there would not be one North supporter who would disagree with me. Personally knowing Barrie over many years and having discussed the "incident" at length on one occasion, you would never get any comment from Barrie other than it was little late and maybe unecessary - which is generally his public comment. I can tell you that the pain and anger in his look tells a completely different story. Publically as I stated, he has always been diplomatic about it.

Rick Davies was the best neutral judge of the incident as it was his kick that went to Robran. Jumbo holds a great deal of anger and resentment towards Matthews purely on that one "gutless act" and I was prsent in a semi-public gathering to hear the Jumbo express those words too. Ironically and not known to Rick at the time was that Graham Arthur - the then President of Hawthorn had come into the room shortly before Rick aired his views but he heard the whole story. Arthur to say the least was embarrassed and in the end offered no defence on behalf of Matthews. Not forgetting of course that Rick played for Hawthorn as well!

Matthews was a great player in his own right but he played on the edge many a time (cue the Neville Bruns episode) and if you have a chance to view extended highlights of old VFL matches on Fox you will see Matthews applying late high punch tackles and falling into players knees first quite often - well ouside of being a tough hard player - more like being a dirty sniper. The same could be said of Ted Whitten and in some of the footage I have seen of him (and you could put "Knuckles" Kerley in that same bracket) hardly inspires me to class those sort of blokes as Champions in the true sense of the word. How Matthews was ever voted the greatest player to have played the game in many circles is beyond me? IMHO there were much better players in the VFL than Matthews in that same era.

In summary what Matthews did that fateful day in Sydney 1974 robbed the wider Football Community of immortalising Robran without any doubters and certainly cost Barrie the honour of being the first man to win 4 MM and in all reasonable honesty maybe 5 or 6.

[GWW]

Fair enough, but i'm entitled to my opinion, just like anyone else, i just dont like the guy. Plenty of people on this forum dont like my footy idols, but hey thats life

And I have no problem with that. Good debate.

Cheers

Yep its all good

[Interceptor]

Coach: Mike Patterson
F: Rick Davies, Max James, Terry Von Bertouch
HF: Phil Carman, Barrie Robran, Peter Marker (c)
C: Bruce Light, Bob Keddie, Michael Graham
HB: Russell Ebert, Neil Sachse, Darrell Cahill
B: Sonny Morey, Ian Kroehn, Neil Button
Ruck: Dean Farnham, Graham Cornes, Ray Huppatz (vc)
Res: Malcolm Blight, John Wynne

WOW!!!
What a side, thanks heaps for that AH!

Got the Vic side AH?

[Adelaide Hawk]

Coach: Mike Patterson
F: Rick Davies, Max James, Terry Von Bertouch
HF: Phil Carman, Barrie Robran, Peter Marker (c)
C: Bruce Light, Bob Keddie, Michael Graham
HB: Russell Ebert, Neil Sachse, Darrell Cahill
B: Sonny Morey, Ian Kroehn, Neil Button
Ruck: Dean Farnham, Graham Cornes, Ray Huppatz (vc)
Res: Malcolm Blight, John Wynne

WOW!!!
What a side, thanks heaps for that AH!

Got the Vic side AH?[/quote

Coach: John Kennedy Sr
F: Alan Martello, Alex Jesaulenko, Leigh Matthews
HF: Allan Davis, Royce Hart (c), David Clarke
C: Ken Fletcher, Neville Fields, Keith Greig
HB: John Pitura, Gary Hardeman, Francis Bourke
B: John Rantall, Geoff Southby, Gary Dempsey
Ruck: Len Thompson, Laurie Richards, Wayne Richardson (vc)
Res: Greg Wells, Barry Lawrence

[GWW]

Coach: John Kennedy Sr
F: Alan Martello, Alex Jesaulenko, Leigh Matthews
HF: Allan Davis, Royce Hart (c), David Clarke
C: Ken Fletcher, Neville Fields, Keith Greig
HB: John Pitura, Gary Hardeman, Francis Bourke
B: John Rantall, Geoff Southby, Gary Dempsey
Ruck: Len Thompson, Laurie Richards, Wayne Richardson (vc)
Res: Greg Wells, Barry Lawrence

I've heard of just about all those players except for the centreman, Fields, which is funny as quite often the centreman is the most well known player.

I wonder if Pitura on half back line is any relation of ex Sturt player Mark..

[Adelaide Hawk]

Coach: John Kennedy Sr
F: Alan Martello, Alex Jesaulenko, Leigh Matthews
HF: Allan Davis, Royce Hart (c), David Clarke
C: Ken Fletcher, Neville Fields, Keith Greig
HB: John Pitura, Gary Hardeman, Francis Bourke
B: John Rantall, Geoff Southby, Gary Dempsey
Ruck: Len Thompson, Laurie Richards, Wayne Richardson (vc)
Res: Greg Wells, Barry Lawrence

I've heard of just about all those players except for the centreman, Fields, which is funny as quite often the centreman is the most well known player.

I wonder if Pitura on half back line is any relation of ex Sturt player Mark..

I have a feeling Mark Pitura would have been John's son, but I am not 100% certain. Neville Fields was a brilliant ball magnet for Essendon and South Melbourne. He had great skills and a very long left foot kick.

[Mr66]

Coach: John Kennedy Sr
F: Alan Martello, Alex Jesaulenko, Leigh Matthews
HF: Allan Davis, Royce Hart (c), David Clarke
C: Ken Fletcher, Neville Fields, Keith Greig
HB: John Pitura, Gary Hardeman, Francis Bourke
B: John Rantall, Geoff Southby, Gary Dempsey
Ruck: Len Thompson, Laurie Richards, Wayne Richardson (vc)
Res: Greg Wells, Barry Lawrence

I've heard of just about all those players except for the centreman, Fields, which is funny as quite often the centreman is the most well known player.

I wonder if Pitura on half back line is any relation of ex Sturt player Mark..

I have a feeling Mark Pitura would have been John's son, but I am not 100% certain. Neville Fields was a brilliant ball magnet for Essendon and South Melbourne. He had great skills and a very long left foot kick.

Now you can be.

[McAlmanac]

Coach: Mike Patterson
F: Rick Davies, Max James, Terry Von Bertouch
HF: Phil Carman, Barrie Robran, Peter Marker (c)
C: Bruce Light, Bob Keddie, Michael Graham
HB: Russell Ebert, Neil Sachse, Darrell Cahill
B: Sonny Morey, Ian Kroehn, Neil Button
Ruck: Dean Farnham, Graham Cornes, Ray Huppatz (vc)
Res: Malcolm Blight, John Wynne

Best players were Huppatz, Keddie, Farnham, Carman, Cornes, Marker, Robran and Morey.

Ray Huppatz had an outstanding record in interstate matches. I didn't actually know that he was State vice captain.

[McAlmanac]

Coach: John Kennedy Sr
F: Alan Martello, Alex Jesaulenko, Leigh Matthews
HF: Allan Davis, Royce Hart (c), David Clarke
C: Ken Fletcher, Neville Fields, Keith Greig
HB: John Pitura, Gary Hardeman, Francis Bourke
B: John Rantall, Geoff Southby, Gary Dempsey
Ruck: Len Thompson, Laurie Richards, Wayne Richardson (vc)
Res: Greg Wells, Barry Lawrence

Getting so close to this side speaks volumes in itself.

First ruck rover Laurie Richards (Fitzroy) turned up at Woodville a couple of years later.

[Adelaide Hawk]

Coach: Mike Patterson
F: Rick Davies, Max James, Terry Von Bertouch
HF: Phil Carman, Barrie Robran, Peter Marker (c)
C: Bruce Light, Bob Keddie, Michael Graham
HB: Russell Ebert, Neil Sachse, Darrell Cahill
B: Sonny Morey, Ian Kroehn, Neil Button
Ruck: Dean Farnham, Graham Cornes, Ray Huppatz (vc)
Res: Malcolm Blight, John Wynne

Best players were Huppatz, Keddie, Farnham, Carman, Cornes, Marker, Robran and Morey.

Ray Huppatz had an outstanding record in interstate matches. I didn't actually know that he was State vice captain.

I heard at the time that when he was appointed Vice Captain, the only concern Huppatz had was he may have been asked to make a speech of some kind. The selectors assured him this would not be necessary as the captain would take care of it

[Valleysvirgin]

hawk, you must be a similar vintage to me..

I'm hoping you and I are the same vintage because the earliest Grand Final I recall was South's win in 1964.

In 1973, I saw the two most spectacular games of footy involving the SANFL I have ever seen. The GF between Glenelg and North, and the State match you refer to. Everyone talks up the 1963 team who won in Melbourne, and rightly so. However, I believe that had the 1973 team defeated Victoria and ended a (then) 8 year drought, they would have been regarded as one of the best ever. It was a side selected purely on form, and past reputations counted for nothing. Here's the team:

Coach: Mike Patterson
F: Rick Davies, Max James, Terry Von Bertouch
HF: Phil Carman, Barrie Robran, Peter Marker (c)
C: Bruce Light, Bob Keddie, Michael Graham
HB: Russell Ebert, Neil Sachse, Darrell Cahill
B: Sonny Morey, Ian Kroehn, Neil Button
Ruck: Dean Farnham, Graham Cornes, Ray Huppatz (vc)
Res: Malcolm Blight, John Wynne

Poor old Ian Kroehn, he was in great form that year and deserved selection, but lacked the polish to compete with the great Jesaulenko. Had Bob Hammond been selected at FB for that match, I honestly feel we would have won the game as I doubt Jezza would have booted 10 on Hammond.

Carman and Marker booted 4 goals each for SA, and the best player were Huppatz, Keddie, Farnham, Carman, Cornes, Marker, Robran and Morey.

Excellent call Hawk. Those of us old enough were extremely lucky to see some of those great games and players mentioned. For anyone much younger, you must understand that how the AFL product and players are presented now is how the SANFL was in Adelaide then. What we quaintly call 'local' players now were superstars, tribalism between suburbs was fierce and 10 - 15,000 people would attend each of the 5 games played on a saturday afternoon. I was 12 in 1973 and would have cut my arm off rather than wear anything at any time that reflected another teams colours. VFL (Melbourne clubs) football was something you watched for an hour of edited highlights on the ABC late on saturday night after your dad had nodded off on the couch.
Centreman battles of Marker V Ebert, Marker V Robran, Marker V Bagshaw, Marker V Taylor etc were weekly occurances. We all love our SANFL footy but it woul be sensational to take you young blokes back there just so you coul experience it.

[McAlmanac]

....and 10 - 15,000 people would attend each of the 5 games played on a saturday afternoon.

No. Two games, maybe, would get that but the other three would range from 3-6,000.

[Ecky]

....and 10 - 15,000 people would attend each of the 5 games played on a saturday afternoon.

No. Two games, maybe, would get that but the other three would range from 3-6,000.

Just to settle the argument, in 1973, 35 out of the 105 minor round games (average of 1.67 per week) had crowds above 10,000.

And 30 minor round games (average of 1.43 per week) had crowds below 6000.

The average minor round crowd was 8989.

[Wedgie]

* BUMP *

North are celebrating the 71/72 era this weekend including a reunion last night which was a great night by all reports and replicate guernsey's being worn tomorrow against Port which are being auctioned on nafc.com.au

Last night on the 7.30 report they had a report about it and thanks to Wessie from the Roost here it is on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC7rGpihXZE