Having friends in the health system, they do make a good point. Lockdown also means those that need care get it, rather than have everyone carrying on normally and potentially injuring themselves and chocking up emergency wards with 'non critical injuries' whilst Ambulances are also taken off the road catering for these matters. Additionally, if we weren't in lockdown and the emergency wards were overrun with Covid patients and those people that suffer heart attacks, strokes etc, wouldn't be able to get care at all. I'm paraphrasing their sentiments. Ultimately it becomes a balance between how many we can live with (as per Bolt's article) but what strain does that put on our health care system and then who dies as a result of not being able to be cared for because they are not a Covid related illness? Do those stats matter?
As someone who works in health care safety and quality that's the crux of the matter. Trying to get the balance right by having capacity in our system to manage all health care needs, trying to minimise avoidable hospital presentations. Remember the a moth ago ramping cade whites at the major Adelaide hospitals (RAH, FMC and LMH)
It’s the million dollar question: What does that balance look like?
SAHealth and SAPOL are reluctant to release figures or put targets out there so the public have something to works towards.
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
Dutchy wrote:Thats where our leaders have failed, give us some direction!
I think governments have failed us in not providing a health care system capable of dealing with both normality (and with that comes non critical hospitalisations), critical non Covid hospitalisations and Covid hospitalisations. The health care system is overrun at the best of times as am Bays said.
....but Daisy said 60% of the people who have been hospitalised with Covid in the UK have been fully vaccinated. That is wrong. The 60% applies to unvaccinated. Approximately 14% of people hospitalised have been fully vaccinated.
Dutchy wrote:Thats where our leaders have failed, give us some direction!
I think governments have failed us in not providing a health care system capable of dealing with both normality (and with that comes non critical hospitalisations), critical non Covid hospitalisations and Covid hospitalisations. The health care system is overrun at the best of times as am Bays said.
The public health system worked fairly well through the 1960s and 1970s, but the rot set in during the early to mid 1980s when the idea of cutting down on bed numbers and focussing on (promised but not delivered) good community care so that the the land could be sold off to reduce debt became a focus - particularly in Mental Health.
It was helped out by the fact that back then private health insurance was affordable* and the public hospital system focussed more on emergency care and the poor. Private health insurance was then more affordable because - pre- Gough Whitlam - it subsidised outpatient GP and specialist care and so more people saw it as worth taking up. (Thereafter it ceased to support outpatient treatment apart from that function being briefly restored under Malcolm Fraser.)
* My father was an SA Railways clerical employee and could afford to pay to be a member of both the independent NHSA, and the fund run by the Railways Union, and in those days could claim off both funds. (He suffered severe Asthma all his life.)
Having friends in the health system, they do make a good point. Lockdown also means those that need care get it, rather than have everyone carrying on normally and potentially injuring themselves and chocking up emergency wards with 'non critical injuries' whilst Ambulances are also taken off the road catering for these matters. Additionally, if we weren't in lockdown and the emergency wards were overrun with Covid patients and those people that suffer heart attacks, strokes etc, wouldn't be able to get care at all. I'm paraphrasing their sentiments. Ultimately it becomes a balance between how many we can live with (as per Bolt's article) but what strain does that put on our health care system and then who dies as a result of not being able to be cared for because they are not a Covid related illness? Do those stats matter?
As someone who works in health care safety and quality that's the crux of the matter. Trying to get the balance right by having capacity in our system to manage all health care needs, trying to minimise avoidable hospital presentations. Remember the a moth ago ramping cade whites at the major Adelaide hospitals (RAH, FMC and LMH)
It’s the million dollar question: What does that balance look like?
SAHealth and SAPOL are reluctant to release figures or put targets out there so the public have something to works towards.
Is that balance even in consideration at the moment, I know when covid first started spreading that was all the talk, that we couldn't let the system be over-run.
Haven't really heard much about that balance these days and its more of a case of saving every single life.
Like others have mentioned I think we are the stage where the conversation needs to turn to how many lives are we willing to lose because zero is simply not an answer. Too many people are not getting to live a quality of life at the moment with all the current going ons.
There are roughly 4000 ICU beds in australia. (There were 2400 pre pandemic and several expansion announcements, cant seem to find the new figure but its in the order of 4,000).
So given over half the country is in lockdown at the moment, you would expect we'd have roughly 3,500 people in ICU with Covid at the moment.... you know, trying to keep the balance so we don't overtop the capacity....
Well, according to health.gov.au, we currently have a grand total of 25 people in ICU with covid at the moment. Yup, 25.
The original message of preventing overtopping of the health system is long long gone, the current lockdowns are being done for different reasons.
Danny Southern telling Plugga he's fat, I'd like to see that!
Trader wrote:Correct, it's no long the consideration.
There are roughly 4000 ICU beds in australia. (There were 2400 pre pandemic and several expansion announcements, cant seem to find the new figure but its in the order of 4,000).
So given over half the country is in lockdown at the moment, you would expect we'd have roughly 3,500 people in ICU with Covid at the moment.... you know, trying to keep the balance so we don't overtop the capacity....
Well, according to health.gov.au, we currently have a grand total of 25 people in ICU with covid at the moment. Yup, 25.
The original message of preventing overtopping of the health system is long long gone, the current lockdowns are being done for different reasons.
Combine that with the ridiculous vaccine slow mo rollout, lack of marketing campaign to it and you cant but almost help the medical professionals are enjoying their time in the sun and the theatre of it all.
I'm sure that's not the case but its not much of stretch to have that thought pattern.
Having friends in the health system, they do make a good point. Lockdown also means those that need care get it, rather than have everyone carrying on normally and potentially injuring themselves and chocking up emergency wards with 'non critical injuries' whilst Ambulances are also taken off the road catering for these matters. Additionally, if we weren't in lockdown and the emergency wards were overrun with Covid patients and those people that suffer heart attacks, strokes etc, wouldn't be able to get care at all. I'm paraphrasing their sentiments. Ultimately it becomes a balance between how many we can live with (as per Bolt's article) but what strain does that put on our health care system and then who dies as a result of not being able to be cared for because they are not a Covid related illness? Do those stats matter?
As someone who works in health care safety and quality that's the crux of the matter. Trying to get the balance right by having capacity in our system to manage all health care needs, trying to minimise avoidable hospital presentations. Remember the a moth ago ramping cade whites at the major Adelaide hospitals (RAH, FMC and LMH)
Some good points raised by you and other posters.
Just imagine if it was a real pandemic how would our current Health system cope not too good thats for sure from what I/ we all have experienced.
When you lose a loved family member to this disgraceful disgusting FAAARRKING health system which has been destroyed by both sides of politics dont start me up bloody mob of arseh---s.
SANFL 2000 - 2011 Central District 12 consecutive Grand Final appearances and 9 Premierships.
Unfortunately i cant claim this but i imagine alot of you are starting to feel this way
I have done my best to respect the diverse opinions regarding COVID-19 over these past year or two, but I have these nagging questions about it... A friend posted this and it brilliantly sums up my train of thought: Please just take politics out of it and read this with an open mind using common sense. Anyone out there who can tell me what our end game is with the covid 19? What is the magic formula that is going to allow us to sound the all clear? Is it zero cases? The only way that will happen is if we just stop testing and stop reporting. Is it a vaccine? It took 25 years for a chicken pox vaccine to be developed. The smallpox inoculation was discovered in 1796 the last known natural case was in 1977. We have a flu vaccine that is only 40 to 60% effective and less than half of the US population choose to get one, and roughly 20,000 Americans will die of the flu or flu complications. Oh, you'll mandate it, like other vaccines are mandated in order to attend school, travel to some foreign countries, etc. We already have a growing number of anti vaxxers refusing proven, tested, well known vaccines that have been administered for decades but aren’t necessarily safe! Do you really think people will flock to get a fast tracked, quickly tested vaccine, whose long term side effects and overall efficacy are anyone's best guess? How long are we going to cancel and postpone and reconsider? You aren't doing in person school until second quarter? What if October's numbers are the same as August's? What if next March is worse than this one was? When do we decide quality of life outweighs the risks? I understand Covid can be deadly or very dangerous for SOME people, but so are strawberries and so is shellfish. We take risks multiple times a day without a second thought. We know driving a car can be dangerous, we don't leave it in the garage. We know the dangers of smoking, drinking and eating fried foods, we do it anyway. We speed, we don't buckle our seat belts, we take more than directed. Quite a fewpeople don't think twice about unprotected sex, they just hop right to it. Is hugging Grandma really more dangerous than rush hour on the freeway? Is going out with friends after work more risky than 4 day old gas station sushi? Or operating a chainsaw? When and how did we so quickly lose our free will? Is there a waiver somewhere I can sign that says, "I understand the risks, but I choose a life with Hugs and Smiles, and the State Fair and Concerts and Homecoming." I understand that there is a minuscule possibility I could die, but I will most likely end up feeling like crap for a few days. I understand I could possibly pass it to someone else, if I'm not careful, but I can pass any virus onto someone else. I'm struggling to see where or how this ends. We either get busy living or we get busy dying. When God decides it's your time, you don't get any mulligans, so I guess I would rather spend my time enjoying it and living in the moment and not worrying about what ifs and maybes, and I bet I'm not the only one.
Supercoach Spring Racing Champion 2019 Spargo's Good Friday Cup Champion 2020
....but Daisy said 60% of the people who have been hospitalised with Covid in the UK have been fully vaccinated. That is wrong. The 60% applies to unvaccinated. Approximately 14% of people hospitalised have been fully vaccinated.
Possibly as i read its from a Lancet study but i found the opening paragraph really interesting seems to be more people in this field are now coming out and exposing some of the problems with these Novel vaccines.
'Two doses of the Pfizer vaccine leave people with more than five times lower neutralising antibodies – a key part of the immune system – against the Indian variant (Delta) when compared to the original corona virus strain upon which current vaccines are based, the largest study of its kind suggests.'
That is why people are dying in the UK from Delta Virus the experts are now saying a third booster shot is required for further protection.
Last edited by Apachebulldog on Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
SANFL 2000 - 2011 Central District 12 consecutive Grand Final appearances and 9 Premierships.
