Clubs in strife

[marbles]

how much does the league charge a club to play a team in a division??

[Look Good In Leather]

A-graders from Div1-3 are 3 points each
B-grades from Div1-3 are 2 points each as are A-Graders from Div4 down

Unless they recruit spuds, they can bring in minimal players.

Effectively the points system only lets you tinker around the edges

Wrong.

B Grade players are worth nothing (apart from SANFL reserves, VFL reserves etc)

Not according to the CFL regulations.

http://www.saafl.asn.au/uploads/Pages/p ... _copy1.pdf

That is from 2012

see page 46 http://www.sacommunityfootball.com.au/f ... h_2014.pdf

[Q.]

Get rid of the points system and paying players and all will be good.

Those two things are definitely factors, but they 2/10s of the overall picture.

Player apathy
Work/Sport Quandary
Competition from other sports
Time poor lifestyles
Geography
Demographics
Club density

etc

It's a complicated story.

A-get used the the points system, the majority are in favour and it's here to stay. Yes I believe there should be more flexibility with it, maybe that will come in time.
B-get used to player payments it's here for good, times changed years ago. Smart clubs work a way to compete without throwing big $$$$ around. Be it right or wrong it ain't changing.

I've racked my feeble mind on how to get rid of player payments (for lower divisions in particular) as I think it's having a massive derogatory impact on our sport and league. The only solutions I've ever thought of either require a massive shift in the mindset of the league, sport and its players, or a massive influx of resources to monitor and police it...or support from the state and feds:

If player x is getting income from playing sport, that should be taxed, unless I am mistaken.

Therefore, technically, players that receive said income could be audited and fined by the ATO.

If this happened enough times eventually individuals and clubs would have to begin declaring their payments.

If that then happened for long enough, then there would be records available for, say, an office of Recreation and Sport to begin putting a stamp on it, and possibly, providing some of those records to approved governing bodies, such as the SAAFL.

From there, they could put in policies and regulation to control it.

Pipe dream and perhaps draconian.

Can we then claim for expenses like equipment, medical, insurances etc?

[Cohiba]

Player apathy
Work/Sport Quandary
Competition from other sports
Time poor lifestyles
Geography
Demographics
Club density

etc

It's a complicated story.

A-get used the the points system, the majority are in favour and it's here to stay. Yes I believe there should be more flexibility with it, maybe that will come in time.
B-get used to player payments it's here for good, times changed years ago. Smart clubs work a way to compete without throwing big $$$$ around. Be it right or wrong it ain't changing.

I've racked my feeble mind on how to get rid of player payments (for lower divisions in particular) as I think it's having a massive derogatory impact on our sport and league. The only solutions I've ever thought of either require a massive shift in the mindset of the league, sport and its players, or a massive influx of resources to monitor and police it...or support from the state and feds:

If player x is getting income from playing sport, that should be taxed, unless I am mistaken.

Therefore, technically, players that receive said income could be audited and fined by the ATO.

If this happened enough times eventually individuals and clubs would have to begin declaring their payments.

If that then happened for long enough, then there would be records available for, say, an office of Recreation and Sport to begin putting a stamp on it, and possibly, providing some of those records to approved governing bodies, such as the SAAFL.

From there, they could put in policies and regulation to control it.

Pipe dream and perhaps draconian.

Can we then claim for expenses like equipment, medical, insurances etc?

Of course.......also Work Cover for injuries sustained at the "office".....

[easy TIGA]

Has the points system had a negative effect on grass roots football? Is it more of a coincidence that when this came in, it made college sides stronger and the less aussie rules populated area weaker?

Is that why you "deserted" a sinking ship....or was it just for the money........

While it's none of your business. I gave the chics my all when I was there and family was my reasoning as to why I left to a club I live 2 minutes away from. I wasn't blaming points system on kilburns down fall. Simply asking what people thought. But thanks for the personal attack.

[Cohiba]

Has the points system had a negative effect on grass roots football? Is it more of a coincidence that when this came in, it made college sides stronger and the less aussie rules populated area weaker?

Is that why you "deserted" a sinking ship....or was it just for the money........

While it's none of your business. I gave the chics my all when I was there and family was my reasoning as to why I left to a club I live 2 minutes away from. I wasn't blaming points system on kilburns down fall. Simply asking what people thought. But thanks for the personal attack.

PG bailed me up on my post and copped for it being a smart alec remark.... it was crass and offer my apologies......and have removed the post.

[Tony Clifton]

In 2013 Pulteney had 534 boys enrolled
CBC 1135
Trinity 1842
Blackfriars 1005
Mercedes 591

Whilst it is not instant, that is going to make a huge difference to the average district club that may have 100-200 players in their junior ranks in a season.

In 5-10 years time, these will be power clubs unless they don't capitalise on it. Likewise clubs like Henley, TTG, Modbury, PNU and Golden Grove should be very strong.

How many of those kids play football though? Those schools would only have a handful of football teams. Certainly less than a mid-sized football club.

Plus any of those kids who are decent at football would be playing junior club footy for someone else. Not all of them gravitate to their old scholars team.

They've had kids at their school for umpteen years and aren't powerhouses.

[Yank Man]

Incorrect 2 and 0 and 2

Div 2 reserves players attract 2 points each under CFL regs for 2013.

[FOURTH ESTATE]

If they leave the league and if these country league apply the pts to those players. Country clubs not in favour of this one from memory.

[heater31]

[quote="morell"]

Player apathy
Work/Sport Quandary
Competition from other sports
Time poor lifestyles
Geography
Demographics
Club density

etc

It's a complicated story.

A-get used the the points system, the majority are in favour and it's here to stay. Yes I believe there should be more flexibility with it, maybe that will come in time.
B-get used to player payments it's here for good, times changed years ago. Smart clubs work a way to compete without throwing big $$$$ around. Be it right or wrong it ain't changing.

I've racked my feeble mind on how to get rid of player payments (for lower divisions in particular) as I think it's having a massive derogatory impact on our sport and league. The only solutions I've ever thought of either require a massive shift in the mindset of the league, sport and its players, or a massive influx of resources to monitor and police it...or support from the state and feds:

If player x is getting income from playing sport, that should be taxed, unless I am mistaken.

Therefore, technically, players that receive said income could be audited and fined by the ATO.

If this happened enough times eventually individuals and clubs would have to begin declaring their payments.

If that then happened for long enough, then there would be records available for, say, an office of Recreation and Sport to begin putting a stamp on it, and possibly, providing some of those records to approved governing bodies, such as the SAAFL.

From there, they could put in policies and regulation to control it.

Pipe dream and perhaps draconian.

Can we then claim for expenses like equipment, medical, insurances etc?

Of course.......also Work Cover for injuries sustained at the "office"..... [/quote]

With the supposed figures of player payments it could be argued that it is not a hobby anymore. SANFL players are taxed like a 2nd job, including the reserves players that are paid peanuts!

Filling out mountains of work cover paper work should also put a stop to clubs throwing cash about Willy billy...

[Bombers4EVA]

Yesterday arvo on Triple M. Ditts and Roo were discussing about Kilburn again and the word going around is that they are going to play in Div 3 in the next round. But if they cant get players then they could be looking at folding. Did anyone else here the conversation yesterday around 4:30pm?

[Yank Man]

Interesting that round 3 saw 19 games throughout the league decided by between 104pts and 436, with 7 of them A grade clubs. Seems like more than the obvious are struggling particularly with depth.

[Cohiba]

Interesting that round 3 saw 19 games throughout the league decided by between 104pts and 436, with 7 of them A grade clubs. Seems like more than the obvious are struggling particularly with depth.

It's been cooked and done before but on Yank's stats..... and history would suggest....... a merge for some of these Clubs would preserve proud traditions and this at least would be a better outcome than seeing"pride before a fall" result as a sad end to a Club and it's supporters.

[Q.]

We're being slightly alarmist. Yes, a couple of those margins are effin huge, but it's always been a case that the bottom teams get pumped by the top teams.

[bickle]

....

[bickle]

yeah there seems to be a "have" V's a "have's not" going around more than usual this year.
money is an issue with some clubs having more money than sense then there's the have more cents than money.
but I would say there's other issues that effect clubs, players not committed to play at the highest level the club is in, not experienced enough committees, lack of volunteers to do the unrewarded stuff that happens in the back ground & the big one creating the right culture for your club. some clubs will have to take a hit to get that culture right.
I know Angle Vale have lost a few players but there has been about 10-12 clearances with the other 30 not playing cause of work, family, just about to start one or fear of getting injured. we've seen this with 10 regular A grade starters missing from the first 3 rounds of the season due to work or slight injuries. no depth.
maybe this is the leveller year that shapes what's to come in the next few years with clubs going on or slowly getting buried against the so called bigger clubs.
whatever happens we'll still have a local game of footy to go see even though you might not really support that club.
have heard the SAAFL are brain storming about how to fix mass exits from clubs to keep them viable. you never know they might re float the idea they had a few years ago of north, south east & west divisions, or whatever they were going to call it.
from what I've heard around the traps this is an issue with the SAAFL.
will have to wait & see their proposal on this problem, if there is in fact a problem.

[morell]

We're being slightly alarmist. Yes, a couple of those margins are effin huge, but it's always been a case that the bottom teams get pumped by the top teams.

Agree, but it's usually 20 goal margins, not 30, 40 and 50. Also, the sheer number of clubs copping these margins is unprecedented in my time.

[Q.]

What's unprecedented is the whinging. Two years ago you just copped it on the chin and rebuilt the next year.

[bennymacca]

We're being slightly alarmist. Yes, a couple of those margins are effin huge, but it's always been a case that the bottom teams get pumped by the top teams.

any more than a 20 goal thrashing is too much. and definitely shouldnt happen in a competition that has divisions designed to eliminate that.

[Q.]

It's not designed to eliminate it, it's designed to give clubs a chance at rebuilding in the following year by playing at a slightly lower standard.