bye bye Mr Rudd

[mick]

My memory is going who introduced HECS?

It came in in 1989. A Labor initiative. Making a contribution to your education is fair enough, but if you have to spend 10 years paying for it and another howver many more getting on your financial feet, then you need some incentives to look forward to in life. Fast forward 20 years and the message has changed from "gone forth and do good" to "well done, now give more. And more. And a bit more."

I was one of the lucky generation who spent 8 years at University for free. I even took out a State Government student loan in 1973, later Don Dunstan was in some political bother in the opinion polls and abolished all student loans and bonds. I agree that some contribution needs to made with regard to education, however, I think the discounts offered for up front payment of HECS favour the wealthy and should be abolished. I've supervised a couple of Thai students whose government paid all for them to come here for an education. They were expected to return to Thailand and work in government positions for 5 years to repay their debt. Something similar could be done for high income professions such as medicine here, you pay no HECS but the government "owns" your skills for 5 years, this would be a great way to get doctors into country areas. A similar system of bonded employment existed for teachers in SA until the mid 70s.

[Magpiespower]

Mate, I naturally accept your word, but it's my long experience that people whose posts just consist of bile against a long list of Labor politicians and whose description of events fit perfectly the current Liberal line, aren't usually Labor voters.

Your description of Rudd also somehow makes it hard to believe you voted for him.

Obviously you did, though, so I must be mistaken.

Mistaken this time, mate.

Irish, Catholic, working class, strong family ties to the union movement - I'm the stereotype Labor voter. Voted Labor at every state and federal election since I've been eligible to cast a ballot.

Even voted for Lynn Arnold in '92!

But after ten years of Machiavellian scheming, plotting and bloodletting by NSW Labor, I've had enough.

The Gillard coup has all the hallmarks of a Sussex Street execution. They're probably miffed the Victorian Right stole the march on this.

Of course, some of the NSW Right's 'finest' - Arbib, Bitar and Bourke - were key players. Ironically, Arbib and Bitar got Rudd the numbers to topple Beazley four years ago. Scumbags.

Just a disillusioned - and angry - Labor voter at the moment.

There's quite a few of us...

[Squawk]

I'm a gen x'er and I'd love to earn enough to be means tested. It'll probably never happen as my mummy didn't let me stay at home until I was over 25 as per squawk

Well since you want to get personal, I didn't get a free ride at home believe me. First degree, I could stay at home if I got a part time job. I worked 4 hrs a day 7 days a week for 3 years. Second degree, I had to have a part time job, support myself and pay board and lodgings. So, basically a roof over the head albeit that the board and lodgings wouldn't have been on a full cost-recovery basis. I hated it at the time but that condition came after I had suggested I would get the dole for a while after finishing school. Reply was something along the lines of - "fine, go and get the dole, but you wont be living here if you do with that attitude". So none of this has anything to do with my "mummy" Voice. Bar for the parental approach taken back then, in all likelihood I may not find myself in the "means tested" bracket. Maybe you should look back on where you (or your mummy) could have made a difference to your own prospects in life?

[Squawk]

Squawk and Southee, you're right, it might be a generation thing.

As a Baby Boomer, it's never occurred to me that your lives are so difficult as you struggle along on over $150,000. And not getting the Baby Bonus Of course, that didn't exist for Baby Boomers. There used to be a Child Endowment, which was a pittance. And extra Child Care places cancelled - what were Child Care places? And rebates means tested! What were rebates?

You're right, having to pay a private health insurance levy just because you're in a top income bracket is a disgrace.

Last I looked, it wasn't "Labor's $150K plus bracket", unless you'll agree it was the Liberal's $100K plus bracket. I presume you're pissed off that Labor raised the limit?

And you're the sandwich generation, looking after yourself and paying for your parents to get old and sick.

And your employers paying superannuation for you (courtesy of you beloved Paul Keating).

And where did you get the idea that Baby Boomers only generally had only one wage earner?

You're right, you are Generation X

R&B - I think you've chosen to focus on the "woe is me and generation x" aspect
in a simplistic manner. I dont begrudge having to pay more than a lower income earner. In a more concise way, I'm simply suggesting that the balance isn't right and therefore, the incentive to pursue a good career and earn more money has been severely diluted. Do you think the balance is too high, too low, or about right? And how do you think that the govt should encourage people to succeed, if they can sit below the threshold and "collect" (or otherwise reduce their 'social' tax contributions?

[redandblack]

Thanks Squawk. I always respect your posts.

This one deserves a considered reply and I'll do that as soon as I can. It's an interesting subject and I'm happy to follow it through.

[Psyber]

My memory is going who introduced HECS?

It came in in 1989. A Labor initiative. Making a contribution to your education is fair enough, but if you have to spend 10 years paying for it and another howver many more getting on your financial feet, then you need some incentives to look forward to in life. Fast forward 20 years and the message has changed from "gone forth and do good" to "well done, now give more. And more. And a bit more."

I was 31 by the time I had gained my full specialist qualifications, and that was with little waste of time - at best I might have clipped it by 18 months if I'd gone all out.
Fortunately it was all pre-HECS. If I'd been going to reach that point in my life before I could earn more than my teacher wife, and come out of it with a huge HECS debt, I'd have done something else.
My brother in law was an Inspector with the ANZ and one of their recruiters - I could have been fast tracked into upper management if I'd chosen that as my path.

By that stage I'd had my life on hold working for the public health system for 6 years at least 50 hours a week.
Out of some sense of obligation to the community, I still put in another 18 months as a Staff Specialist before getting sick of the senior clerks telling me how to treat patients and which cheaper medications I was allowed to prescribe. I'd originally intended to make a career in the public system but they drive everyone out in the end, by putting cost savings over good treatment - only the obedient are wanted.

[Psyber]

At least Kev07-10 won't have moving difficulties:
http://www.aec.gov.au/Parties_and_Repre ... iffith.htm

[Dutchy]

Yes, Labor politicians had a difference of opinion. Perhaps they're trying to catch up with Opposition Leader Nelson, whoops, sorry, Turnbull. That's it, Turnbull. Oh no, sorry, it's Abbott. I thought it might have been Costello for a while.

Id take any of the above over Latham....

[redandblack]

Probably so, but that wasn't the point, Dutchy.

[Squawk]

Thanks Squawk. I always respect your posts.

This one deserves a considered reply and I'll do that as soon as I can. It's an interesting subject and I'm happy to follow it through.

Norwood v West this week too R&B - who ya gonna take and will it be above the line or below the line? Ferg's out means you lose a bit of balance.

(Couldn't help but notice the synergies with our two teams playing this week and the discussion in here! )

[Interceptor]

Rudd's downfall:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bMXVA9qj5I

[White Line Fever]

Some people don't mess around when oppurtunities arise in advertising.

In yesterday's Melbourne Paper.

[fish]

Despite his failings that eventually led to his downfall, Kevin Rudd will always be remembered by me for:

Getting rid of John Howard.
Getting rid of Workchoices.
The apology to the stolen generations.
Guiding our economy successfully through the GFC.

Thankyou Mr. Rudd.

[mick]

I suppose this tread can be locked now as he is gone.

[Sojourner]

Despite his failings that eventually led to his downfall, Kevin Rudd will always be remembered by me for:

Getting rid of John Howard.
Getting rid of Workchoices.
The apology to the stolen generations.
Guiding our economy successfully through the GFC.

Thankyou Mr. Rudd.

Getting rid of all of Work Choices???

[Q.]

Despite his failings that eventually led to his downfall, Kevin Rudd will always be remembered by me for:

Getting rid of John Howard.
Getting rid of Workchoices.
The apology to the stolen generations.
Guiding our economy successfully through the GFC.

Thankyou Mr. Rudd.

Getting rid of all of Work Choices???

I think he means 'putting it on hold until Liberal get voted in at the next election"

[wycbloods]

Despite his failings that eventually led to his downfall, Kevin Rudd will always be remembered by me for:

Getting rid of John Howard.
Getting rid of Workchoices.
The apology to the stolen generations.
Guiding our economy successfully through the GFC.

Thankyou Mr. Rudd.

Getting rid of all of Work Choices???

Getting rid of most of it Soj

[purch]

Despite his failings that eventually led to his downfall, Kevin Rudd will always be remembered by me for:

Getting rid of John Howard.
Getting rid of Workchoices.
The apology to the stolen generations.
Guiding our economy successfully through the GFC.

Thankyou Mr. Rudd.

Agree with you on points one and three.

On point four: It had more to do with our strong primary industry base, rather than Kevin IMO. That has become even more evident in my last 4 weeks overseas talking to various industry people from the US, Canada, Mexico...even Peruvians and Chileans know where Australia's economic strength is.

[mick]

Despite his failings that eventually led to his downfall, Kevin Rudd will always be remembered by me for:

Getting rid of John Howard.
Getting rid of Workchoices.
The apology to the stolen generations.
Guiding our economy successfully through the GFC.

Thankyou Mr. Rudd.

One of Australia's greatest PMs for a 07 day wonder
Watered down workchoices - most of it is still there
Stolen generations - a sop to the latte sippers, but in effect no concrete changes for aboriginal people
Yeah thanks to the exceptional economic management of the previous 11 years and the resources boom Billions wasted on school halls and dodgy insulation

Goodbye Kevin, your last speech was probably your most sincere

[interested observer]

Despite his failings that eventually led to his downfall, Kevin Rudd will always be remembered by me for:

Getting rid of John Howard.
Getting rid of Workchoices.
The apology to the stolen generations.
Guiding our economy successfully through the GFC.

Thankyou Mr. Rudd.

One of Australia's greatest PMs for a 07 day wonder
Watered down workchoices - most of it is still there
Stolen generations - a sop to the latte sippers, but in effect no concrete changes for aboriginal people
Yeah thanks to the exceptional economic management of the previous 11 years and the resources boom Billions wasted on school halls and dodgy insulation

Goodbye Kevin, your last speech was probably your most sincere

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