Funny how he absolutely slammed England a few years ago for revealing locker room secrets and conversations etc yet he has continued to do exactly the same thing.
Hayden isn't as popular as he would like to pretend
But he does have a point that Michael Clarke is involved in several 'me, me, me' moments during his career - Dumping Lara mid tour to NZ, the Simon Katich incident now the short leg refusal (however the senior players reasoning is bordering on bullying)
Pup has developed as good as anyone ever has over time, I heard an interview with him the other day where he thanked the supporters, the ones that grew to like him and the haters as they made him look at himself and provided motivation for himself.
Although most of us will never know, did he reek of arrogance behind closed doors, did he have the support of his players, was he running a totalitarian regime, was his captaincy caught somewhere between an AB, Steve Waugh and a Punter type?
There's been an apparent rift between Boof and himself, judging by the stories circulating it seems to be likely as they are two completely different types of character.
Although I disliked him intensely for the first part of his career I always respected his ability but struggled to see how his body could be so fragile given his frame and role within the team. If he was able to to bowl a lot more we would've been a far more successful team as his spinners were as good as anyone's and he was a wicket taker. He has been one of the sweetest timers of the ball I have seen and for someone with such a patient temperament his ability to stand there and perfectly time a straight drive for 6 with ease off of anyone in the world was something to admire.
I've enjoyed watching his craft, I've loved the way that he's responded to the critic's over time by scoring runs and then becoming a test captain despite 75% of Australian cricket followers objecting, they are the things I'll remember him for although I can't wait to hear the full stories behind the Katich scenario and the Hussey thing.
Funny how he absolutely slammed England a few years ago for revealing locker room secrets and conversations etc yet he has continued to do exactly the same thing.
Hayden isn't as popular as he would like to pretend
But he does have a point that Michael Clarke is involved in several 'me, me, me' moments during his career - Dumping Lara mid tour to NZ, the Simon Katich incident now the short leg refusal (however the senior players reasoning is bordering on bullying)
Pup has developed as good as anyone ever has over time, I heard an interview with him the other day where he thanked the supporters, the ones that grew to like him and the haters as they made him look at himself and provided motivation for himself.
Although most of us will never know, did he reek of arrogance behind closed doors, did he have the support of his players, was he running a totalitarian regime, was his captaincy caught somewhere between an AB, Steve Waugh and a Punter type?
There's been an apparent rift between Boof and himself, judging by the stories circulating it seems to be likely as they are two completely different types of character.
Although I disliked him intensely for the first part of his career I always respected his ability but struggled to see how his body could be so fragile given his frame and role within the team. If he was able to to bowl a lot more we would've been a far more successful team as his spinners were as good as anyone's and he was a wicket taker. He has been one of the sweetest timers of the ball I have seen and for someone with such a patient temperament his ability to stand there and perfectly time a straight drive for 6 with ease off of anyone in the world was something to admire.
I've enjoyed watching his craft, I've loved the way that he's responded to the critic's over time by scoring runs and then becoming a test captain despite 75% of Australian cricket followers objecting, they are the things I'll remember him for although I can't wait to hear the full stories behind the Katich scenario and the Hussey thing.
Was it at the start of Lehmann's tenure that the captain was removed from the selection panel?
I don't think there's any doubt that Clarke being removed from selecting his own team was a tipping point for him.
Booney wrote: Was it at the start of Lehmann's tenure that the captain was removed from the selection panel?
I don't think there's any doubt that Clarke being removed from selecting his own team was a tipping point for him.
I think you're right, I'll have to investigate, I'm a firm believer of the captain being part of the process, at any level.
It depends on the Coach/Captain relationship. It was done as we had a selection debacle with the Captain on the panel a few years ago. The captain should be consulted on Selections but in International cricket I don't think a Captain should be on the final selection panel. They can participate in discussions but in know way should have a vote on the panel.
It depends on the Coach/Captain relationship. It was done as we had a selection debacle with the Captain on the panel a few years ago. The captain should be consulted on Selections but in International cricket I don't think a Captain should be on the final selection panel. They can participate in discussions but in know way should have a vote on the panel.
The captain has to execute a plan once on the battlefield, if he doesn't have the personel to execute his plan or doesn't have the faith in the players picked it makes it bloody hard.
It depends on the Coach/Captain relationship. It was done as we had a selection debacle with the Captain on the panel a few years ago. The captain should be consulted on Selections but in International cricket I don't think a Captain should be on the final selection panel. They can participate in discussions but in know way should have a vote on the panel.
The captain has to execute a plan once on the battlefield, if he doesn't have the personel to execute his plan or doesn't have the faith in the players picked it makes it bloody hard.
Exactly, at club level the Captain selects the 10 players that are available at that point in time that he thinks will win the match. What makes international cricket so different? The captain still controls what happens on the ground not the coaching staff or selectors. Why can't he have a say in selection?
I think the difference is that at international level, as a skipper you're playing with blokes' careers, possible contracts, future earnings. If a captain drops a bloke, there is an extra wedge that can be driven between the him and the team. If selectors do it, they're not going to impact that on-field relationship. That way, the skipper can concentrate on things like on-field leadership and being a good team-mate and catching the team bus. That's the way I read the reasoning for separating the captain from these decisions.
You're my only friend, and you don't even like me.
Dogwatcher wrote:I think the difference is that at international level, as a skipper you're playing with blokes' careers, possible contracts, future earnings. If a captain drops a bloke, there is an extra wedge that can be driven between the him and the team. If selectors do it, they're not going to impact that on-field relationship. That way, the skipper can concentrate on things like on-field leadership and being a good team-mate and catching the team bus. That's the way I read the reasoning for separating the captain from these decisions.
With the size of selection squads you'd think it wouldn't be up to one individual to be pointed out to drop someone. Surely you'd pencil in the obvious ones and then discuss the pro's and con's of the blank spaces. I've sat on at least 150 selection tables for cricket with many arguments and many late Thursday nights because there was one position but 3 players to fill it. At least at International level they don't have to worry about who's paid their rego and other crap like that, it's all about fielding the most balanced side that's going to win the match in question.
bennymacca wrote:Even if you didnt like the bloke (I never had an issue with Clarke), it is pretty poor form for all of the past players to snipe him on the way out.
Better now than to have it play on his mind while he was at the helm I guess, each to their own.
bennymacca wrote:Even if you didnt like the bloke (I never had an issue with Clarke), it is pretty poor form for all of the past players to snipe him on the way out.
Better now than to have it play on his mind while he was at the helm I guess, each to their own.
It's the sort of stuff that should come out in a book in 2 years haha
bennymacca wrote:Even if you didnt like the bloke (I never had an issue with Clarke), it is pretty poor form for all of the past players to snipe him on the way out.
It is 'poor form' and all these people like Hayden, Symonds, Buchanan etc know you're not meant to do it the second a guy announces his retirement and is still actually in the team which is the most revealing aspect of all this, how low in regard Clarke is held.
"The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment" – Warren Bennis
bennymacca wrote:Even if you didnt like the bloke (I never had an issue with Clarke), it is pretty poor form for all of the past players to snipe him on the way out.
Better now than to have it play on his mind while he was at the helm I guess, each to their own.
It's the sort of stuff that should come out in a book in 2 years haha
Yeah, along with how annoying it is that he talks out of the side of his mouth
Funny how he absolutely slammed England a few years ago for revealing locker room secrets and conversations etc yet he has continued to do exactly the same thing.
Hayden isn't as popular as he would like to pretend
But he does have a point that Michael Clarke is involved in several 'me, me, me' moments during his career - Dumping Lara mid tour to NZ, the Simon Katich incident now the short leg refusal (however the senior players reasoning is bordering on bullying)
Pup has developed as good as anyone ever has over time, I heard an interview with him the other day where he thanked the supporters, the ones that grew to like him and the haters as they made him look at himself and provided motivation for himself.
Although most of us will never know, did he reek of arrogance behind closed doors, did he have the support of his players, was he running a totalitarian regime, was his captaincy caught somewhere between an AB, Steve Waugh and a Punter type?
There's been an apparent rift between Boof and himself, judging by the stories circulating it seems to be likely as they are two completely different types of character.
Although I disliked him intensely for the first part of his career I always respected his ability but struggled to see how his body could be so fragile given his frame and role within the team. If he was able to to bowl a lot more we would've been a far more successful team as his spinners were as good as anyone's and he was a wicket taker. He has been one of the sweetest timers of the ball I have seen and for someone with such a patient temperament his ability to stand there and perfectly time a straight drive for 6 with ease off of anyone in the world was something to admire.
I've enjoyed watching his craft, I've loved the way that he's responded to the critic's over time by scoring runs and then becoming a test captain despite 75% of Australian cricket followers objecting, they are the things I'll remember him for although I can't wait to hear the full stories behind the Katich scenario and the Hussey thing.
Was it at the start of Lehmann's tenure that the captain was removed from the selection panel?
I don't think there's any doubt that Clarke being removed from selecting his own team was a tipping point for him.
Was odd that in one of Clarkes first interviews his week he discussed how he believes the coaches role is overrated and that he hoped one day the captains role would go back to being more dominant how it 'should be'
Seemed like there could be friction between himself and boof.
Did they also have issues over a selection in the windies a while back.
