US

[Senor Moto Gadili]

My God, you are onto something. I'm going to claim a refund on all my losing bets and spend the money celebrating Australia's recent Test series victory over India

[woodublieve12]

rump Administration Records and Failures.

Record Trade deficit.
Exports declining.
Record amount of Farmers on welfare and going bankrupt.
Record deficit spending and National Debt
Increased air pollution.
Most cabinet resignations.
Most Indictments and convictions.
Less Deportations than Obama.
Less people covered by health insurance.
No infrastructure funding.
Mexico didn't pay for "the Wall" (it's actually mostly fencing)
Record amount of days the Government was shut down (all to get an even WORSE deal than they could've got beforehand)
Record amount of catastrophes at industrial plants.
More people unemployed than when he took office.
Most deaths from the pandemic in the WESTERN WORLD.
Most days vacationing.
Most games of golf.
Lowest first term approval rating in history.
Most lies told in U.S Presidential history.
Less safeguards on financial institutions with the removal of the Dodd-Frank Act.
Over 35 Missile or Nuclear tests in North Korea. NK built a Nuclear Submarine.
Iran started making Nuclear weapons and building a second Nuclear plant.

Trump lost the popular vote TWICE and never had a mandate to force his agenda on the people.

His mandate was to find common ground and to try to bring the Country together, but he failed miserably.

The Worst U.S President

[Booney]

rump Administration Records and Failures.

Rump? Ru oh!

[Jimmy_041]

rump Administration Records and Failures.

Record Trade deficit.
Exports declining.
Record amount of Farmers on welfare and going bankrupt.
Record deficit spending and National Debt
Increased air pollution.
Most cabinet resignations.
Most Indictments and convictions.
Less Deportations than Obama.
Less people covered by health insurance.
No infrastructure funding.
Mexico didn't pay for "the Wall" (it's actually mostly fencing)
Record amount of days the Government was shut down (all to get an even WORSE deal than they could've got beforehand)
Record amount of catastrophes at industrial plants.
More people unemployed than when he took office.
Most deaths from the pandemic in the WESTERN WORLD.
Most days vacationing.
Most games of golf.
Lowest first term approval rating in history.
Most lies told in U.S Presidential history.
Less safeguards on financial institutions with the removal of the Dodd-Frank Act.
Over 35 Missile or Nuclear tests in North Korea. NK built a Nuclear Submarine.
Iran started making Nuclear weapons and building a second Nuclear plant.

Trump lost the popular vote TWICE and never had a mandate to force his agenda on the people.

His mandate was to find common ground and to try to bring the Country together, but he failed miserably.

The Worst U.S President

Fake news

Just the first one is misleading. It is a record for goods only - not overall which includes services

In January 2020 (ie) pre - pandemic it was 3.5%
To blame the unemployment rate on Trump
That would apply to every government in 2020
But, again, its not true. By November 2020, it was back down to 6.7%

USUR.png (54.06 KiB) Viewed 3384 times

And the popular vote means nothing.
The US electoral system was created to ensure that the election was not controlled by the most populous states
Trump had a mandate in 2016

[RB]

The US electoral system was created to ensure that the election was not controlled by the most populous states

That's not really why they created the Electoral College, and in fact the opposite is true - if a candidate wins the 11 most populous states, he or she wins 270 votes and thus the election - even if, hypothetically speaking, they did not win a single vote in any of the other 39 states.

[Jimmy_041]

The US electoral system was created to ensure that the election was not controlled by the most populous states

That's not really why they created the Electoral College, and in fact the opposite is true - if a candidate wins the 11 most populous states, he or she wins 270 votes and thus the election - even if, hypothetically speaking, they did not win a single vote in any of the other 39 states.

Yes it was - it was aimed at New York and California

[RB]

Again, preventing the most populous states from dominating the election was not the reason for the design of the original constitutional provisions for electing the president, nor the new system following the 1800 election which largely still exists today - I suggest you do some research.

Also, California did not exist when they created the system.

[Jimmy_041]

Again, preventing the most populous states from dominating the election was not the reason for the design of the original constitutional provisions for electing the president, nor the new system following the 1800 election which largely still exists today - I suggest you do some research.

Also, California did not exist when they created the system.

I have researched it and it may not be the only reason but it was certainly one. They were concerned that the big cities would dominate because they would know who the3 candidates were but people in outback US wouldn't have a clue


Sorry - yes correct about California but they form part of the recent arguments against changing it to a popular vote.
It's not one person / one vote and its still the argument for keeping it is to stop the big cities dominating

USEC.png (742.13 KiB) Viewed 3312 times

[Booney]

but people in outback US wouldn't have a clue

They got that right.

[Jimmy_041]

How about I reword what I am saying

Part of the reason for the electoral college system, instead of a popular vote, was to balance the electoral power between the bigger and smaller states

We have a something similar here in Australia where each State has an equal number of senators regardless of their population. Otherwise the eastern states could dominate the laws, funding etc

[Jimmy_041]

but people in outback US wouldn't have a clue

They got that right.

Should have kept that one for your 50,000th!

[Jimmy_041]

Somewhere in here is the debate about it: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_centur ... es_719.asp

But I have to get going

[Jimmy_041]

Interesting how this got lost in the media

Trump wasn't the first loser to try to get the electoral college to not follow the vote

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-coll ... er-19-2017

[am Bays]

We have a something similar here in Australia where each State has an equal number of senators regardless of their population. Otherwise the eastern states could dominate the laws, funding etc

Whilst we know thanks to the politics of the gold rush and the 2nd half of the 19th century setting the tone for the next 120 years but if all the NSW and Victorian lower house reps decided to vote as a block they would have more seats than Qld, WA, SA Tas ACT and NT combined.

Not going to happen though

[RB]

Somewhere in here is the debate about it: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_centur ... es_719.asp

But I have to get going

Well I got around to reading this - it refers to the debate on whether the president should be eligible for re-election, with one speaker predicting that if they are so eligible, they will be no check on the legislature as they'll be keen to ensure a second term, and that to that end they'll likely govern only with the interests of larger states in mind.

The link does not support the notion that the EC was designed to ensure that electoral power should be balanced between large and small states.

Rather, it was designed to ensure a balance between the north and south, and to ensure that the south would have electoral power equal to its population (notwithstanding that a much higher proportion of the southern population were slaves, and thus ineligible to vote), and finally to ensure that unsuitable 'populist' candidates - i.e. demagogues - would not get themselves elected by courting the masses. For this reason, not only was the EC system thought up, but indeed the decision as to who got to be president left to the state legislatures, rather than the voters of each state like in the present day.

This is to be contrasted with the Senate, which was explicitly designed to ensure that large states would not dominate at the expense of small states.

Some links which explain the intentions of the writers of the Constitution:

https://theconversation.com/who-invente ... ege-147083
https://time.com/4558510/electoral-coll ... y-slavery/

Although at the present time, the popular vote-EC disparity, meaning that Biden had to win the popular vote by about 3.5% in order to get to 270 votes, favours the party which is more popular in some of the smaller, more rural states, it's a matter of swings and roundabouts. The Democrats have benefited from it in the past. (And indeed, smaller states that reliably vote Democratic like Maine, New Mexico and Vermont, suffer the same fate presently as safe GOP states like Wyoming, Montana etc. would if a popular vote system was introduced. Indeed, there are only about ten genuine 'swing states' where candidates campaign.)

Nor, as I have said, does it prevent the large states from dominating the election, given that so long as you get to the 270, you could completely ignore large swathes of smaller states. It just happens that the big ones are fairly evenly split for the time being, although if Texas moves into the Democrat camp, the disparity will be the other way around.

Although I think that proportionate representation in the Senate is important in a federation, as we have here in Australia, I think the EC system is not only outdated, but in practice doesn't even lead to the balance you described Jimmy, or at least, it only balances power between large states and some small states.

[Apachebulldog]

rump Administration Records and Failures.

Record Trade deficit.
Exports declining.
Record amount of Farmers on welfare and going bankrupt.
Record deficit spending and National Debt
Increased air pollution.
Most cabinet resignations.
Most Indictments and convictions.
Less Deportations than Obama.
Less people covered by health insurance.
No infrastructure funding.
Mexico didn't pay for "the Wall" (it's actually mostly fencing)
Record amount of days the Government was shut down (all to get an even WORSE deal than they could've got beforehand)
Record amount of catastrophes at industrial plants.
More people unemployed than when he took office.
Most deaths from the pandemic in the WESTERN WORLD.
Most days vacationing.
Most games of golf.
Lowest first term approval rating in history.
Most lies told in U.S Presidential history.
Less safeguards on financial institutions with the removal of the Dodd-Frank Act.
Over 35 Missile or Nuclear tests in North Korea. NK built a Nuclear Submarine.
Iran started making Nuclear weapons and building a second Nuclear plant.

Trump lost the popular vote TWICE and never had a mandate to force his agenda on the people.

His mandate was to find common ground and to try to bring the Country together, but he failed miserably.

The Worst U.S President

LOL where did you dig all that rubbish from ????

I know the FAKE MSM CNN ABC NBC MSNBC CBS how about checking out some other outlets like Fox News OAN Newsmax NTD etc many out there

[Apachebulldog]

For you info Woody

Once again Trumps Accomplishments.


https://banned.video/watch?id=60074a31b6a2d44c681c47a8

[Jimmy_041]

Somewhere in here is the debate about it: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_centur ... es_719.asp

But I have to get going

Well I got around to reading this - it refers to the debate on whether the president should be eligible for re-election, with one speaker predicting that if they are so eligible, they will be no check on the legislature as they'll be keen to ensure a second term, and that to that end they'll likely govern only with the interests of larger states in mind.

The link does not support the notion that the EC was designed to ensure that electoral power should be balanced between large and small states.

Rather, it was designed to ensure a balance between the north and south, and to ensure that the south would have electoral power equal to its population (notwithstanding that a much higher proportion of the southern population were slaves, and thus ineligible to vote), and finally to ensure that unsuitable 'populist' candidates - i.e. demagogues - would not get themselves elected by courting the masses. For this reason, not only was the EC system thought up, but indeed the decision as to who got to be president left to the state legislatures, rather than the voters of each state like in the present day.

This is to be contrasted with the Senate, which was explicitly designed to ensure that large states would not dominate at the expense of small states.

Some links which explain the intentions of the writers of the Constitution:

https://theconversation.com/who-invente ... ege-147083
https://time.com/4558510/electoral-coll ... y-slavery/

Although at the present time, the popular vote-EC disparity, meaning that Biden had to win the popular vote by about 3.5% in order to get to 270 votes, favours the party which is more popular in some of the smaller, more rural states, it's a matter of swings and roundabouts. The Democrats have benefited from it in the past. (And indeed, smaller states that reliably vote Democratic like Maine, New Mexico and Vermont, suffer the same fate presently as safe GOP states like Wyoming, Montana etc. would if a popular vote system was introduced. Indeed, there are only about ten genuine 'swing states' where candidates campaign.)

Nor, as I have said, does it prevent the large states from dominating the election, given that so long as you get to the 270, you could completely ignore large swathes of smaller states. It just happens that the big ones are fairly evenly split for the time being, although if Texas moves into the Democrat camp, the disparity will be the other way around.

Although I think that proportionate representation in the Senate is important in a federation, as we have here in Australia, I think the EC system is not only outdated, but in practice doesn't even lead to the balance you described Jimmy, or at least, it only balances power between large states and some small states.

RB

Somewhere in here refers to the website; not that page
I don’t have my laptop home this weekend so can’t go through it or my eyes will go

[Booney]

Trumps defence team quits.

He wanted to keep calling voter fraud.

They didn't. They quit.

[Booney]

Trump been reinstated yet?