Ashes 2023

[MW]

They are too far into the narrative to change now.

[LaughingKookaburra]

“We haven’t lost yet”

You can’t lose anything if you never had it in the first place.

[RB]

I think 'Bazball' is a sort of coping strategy for moaning poms. And Baz is a sort of therapist, dishing out the kool-aid. It definitely seems like the type of mantra you'd cook up if you weren't that confident of winning.

The idea that England are the 'moral victors' is a kind of choose-your-own-reality that is also a coping strategy - why acknowledge you've lost when there are more comfortable alternatives?

So far, the English team and, remarkably, media, have all been on the same page. However given they almost always win home series (i.e. prior to 'Bazball'), I can't see the unity lasting if they don't get the results.

[Armchair expert]

England Men have announced their XI for the fifth LV= Insurance Men's Ashes Test starting at The Kia Oval on Thursday 27 July.

England Men's Team

1. Ben Duckett
2. Zak Crawley
3. Moeen Ali
4. Joe Root
5. Harry Brook
6. Ben Stokes *
7. Jonathan Bairstow +
8. Chris Woakes
9. Mark Wood
10. Stuart Broad
11. James Anderson


Unchanged from 4th test

[LaughingKookaburra]

Painting a different picture - How would the Australian population react to the Australian cricket team trotting out this stuff to the media and reacting like this through out a home series v England if the results were reversed?

I’d suspect Brendan McCullum would have been on a plane back to NZ and told to f*** off before the end of the 2nd Test.

[whufc]

Painting a different picture - How would the Australian population react to the Australian cricket team trotting out this stuff to the media and reacting like this through out a home series v England if the results were reversed?

I’d suspect Brendan McCullum would have been on a plane back to NZ and told to f*** off before the end of the 2nd Test.

I do laugh....

When Pat Cummins comes out and says the exact words that 'Warner is going very well' all the aussies come out say......come on you take press conferences with a pinch of salt, what else is he meant to say.

When the English come and out and say something it's like deciphering words from the bible.

[batmanbegins]

I think 'Bazball' is a sort of coping strategy for moaning poms. And Baz is a sort of therapist, dishing out the kool-aid. It definitely seems like the type of mantra you'd cook up if you weren't that confident of winning.

The idea that England are the 'moral victors' is a kind of choose-your-own-reality that is also a coping strategy - why acknowledge you've lost when there are more comfortable alternatives?

So far, the English team and, remarkably, media, have all been on the same page. However given they almost always win home series (i.e. prior to 'Bazball'), I can't see the unity lasting if they don't get the results.

Alright there is a lot of rubbish chat and it would be nice if they could own up to some of there errors especially in the first two tests but jeepers the Aussies until this team have been the biggest shit talkers in the world for 25 years. It's kinda nice we are the cocky side and your the negative one for the first time i can remember.

Everyone seems to forget we were 1 win from 17 tests before Stokes took over, even losing at home. Nobody can tell me we havent been much better this series then we were in 2019 when we drew the series. You should have won 3 1 easily in 2019 as you were the much better side but i don't think anyone can argue this series through 4 tests the teams have been pretty even.

[am Bays]

I do laugh....

When Pat Cummins comes out and says the exact words that 'Warner is going very well' all the aussies come out say......come on you take press conferences with a pinch of salt, what else is he meant to say.

When the English come and out and say something it's like deciphering words from the bible.

After our last debate about this I went back and checked the full quote rather five select words

The full quote gives better context and is actually 99% spot on:

"I think [Warner] has been going really well," Cummins said. "I thought at Lord's, he was really impressive. Last week, like many of us, he probably didn't contribute as much as he would have liked with the bat.”

And it’s true the three opening partnerships at Edgebaston and Lords of 61, 73 and 63 were key in taking time out of the game putting overs into the English bowlers and laying the platform for Head and Smith to get decent runs

You don’t panic after one test in a series when you have a plan

Now having said that I think he’s done and there should be a change in the batting for the first test of the summer. I think like Gilchrist, Boon, Hussey etc you get the point where your ability to summon up the mental energy required to play test cricket diminishes.

His first innings at Okd Trafford was the perfect example, did all the hard work for the 1st hour, looked really good but in the first over after the break flashed at a wide one and nicked off. A pure mental error.

So in short much of what has been read and said about has been reasonably accurate which is easier when you’re are winning.

[whufc]

I do laugh....

When Pat Cummins comes out and says the exact words that 'Warner is going very well' all the aussies come out say......come on you take press conferences with a pinch of salt, what else is he meant to say.

When the English come and out and say something it's like deciphering words from the bible.

After our last debate about this I went back and checked the full quote rather five select words

The full quote gives better context and is actually 99% spot on:

"I think [Warner] has been going really well," Cummins said. "I thought at Lord's, he was really impressive. Last week, like many of us, he probably didn't contribute as much as he would have liked with the bat.”

And it’s true the three opening partnerships at Edgebaston and Lords of 61, 73 and 63 were key in taking time out of the game putting overs into the English bowlers and laying the platform for Head and Smith to get decent runs

You don’t panic after one test in a series when you have a plan

Now having said that I think he’s done and there should be a change in the batting for the first test of the summer. I think like Gilchrist, Boon, Hussey etc you get the point where your ability to summon up the mental energy required to play test cricket diminishes.

His first innings at Okd Trafford was the perfect example, did all the hard work for the 1st hour, looked really good but in the first over after the break flashed at a wide one and nicked off. A pure mental error.

So in short much of what has been read and said about has been reasonably accurate which is easier when you’re are winning.

I think what England has said has proven to be extremely accurate.... felt they were on top for large parts of the first two tests despite the results and that they were still in the contest.

Have dominated the last two tests so in hindsight what they said after the first two tests was pretty bang on.

[am Bays]

Don’t disagree with that

England have have dominated the last two tests and we won key moments of the first two tests that could’ve gone either way especially the first test.

That analysis is bang on.

Where the discourse is the reaction to that analysis - lucky, cheats, etc that is amusing.

Having said that the hubris on both sides of the media divide (professional and social) makes one chuckle

[The Dark Knight]

SA Footy selection time for the firth test-
I think we can all agree that Murphy plays instead of Green?
No complaining about Warner retaining his spot please or suggesting he should be dropped, we all know he's going play.

[Eagles2014]

SA Footy selection time for the firth test-
I think we can all agree that Murphy plays instead of Green?
No complaining about Warner retaining his spot please or suggesting he should be dropped, we all know he's going play.

One change only for me, Murphy for Green.

[Armchair expert]

I'd rest a quick for Murphy

[Lightning McQueen]

SA Footy selection time for the firth test-
I think we can all agree that Murphy plays instead of Green?
No complaining about Warner retaining his spot please or suggesting he should be dropped, we all know he's going play.

Did we replace Lyon in the squad?

[The Dark Knight]

SA Footy selection time for the firth test-
I think we can all agree that Murphy plays instead of Green?
No complaining about Warner retaining his spot please or suggesting he should be dropped, we all know he's going play.

Did we replace Lyon in the squad?

No.

[LaughingKookaburra]

Painting a different picture - How would the Australian population react to the Australian cricket team trotting out this stuff to the media and reacting like this through out a home series v England if the results were reversed?

I’d suspect Brendan McCullum would have been on a plane back to NZ and told to f*** off before the end of the 2nd Test.

I do laugh....

When Pat Cummins comes out and says the exact words that 'Warner is going very well' all the aussies come out say......come on you take press conferences with a pinch of salt, what else is he meant to say.

When the English come and out and say something it's like deciphering words from the bible.

Have you been listening to the same media and general public feedback as the rest of the country? Pat Cummins and Dave Warner have been getting absolutely smashed for months by both the media and the majority of the Australian population. The only time Pat had a bit of a reprieve has been at the end of the First Test. That’s why I said if the shoe was on the other foot with McCullum the coach of Australia then he wouldn’t last 5 minutes.

[whufc]

Painting a different picture - How would the Australian population react to the Australian cricket team trotting out this stuff to the media and reacting like this through out a home series v England if the results were reversed?

I’d suspect Brendan McCullum would have been on a plane back to NZ and told to f*** off before the end of the 2nd Test.

I do laugh....

When Pat Cummins comes out and says the exact words that 'Warner is going very well' all the aussies come out say......come on you take press conferences with a pinch of salt, what else is he meant to say.

When the English come and out and say something it's like deciphering words from the bible.

Have you been listening to the same media and general public feedback as the rest of the country? Pat Cummins and Dave Warner have been getting absolutely smashed for months by both the media and the majority of the Australian population. The only time Pat had a bit of a reprieve has been at the end of the First Test. That’s why I said if the shoe was on the other foot with McCullum the coach of Australia then he wouldn’t last 5 minutes.

The English tabloids are as bad as any getting around the world and under normal circumstances eat their own alive.

The English playing group and coaches have done extremely well and smartly changing the narrative and forcing the English press to be positive despite being 2-0 down. For all things Bazball is, it is very much about positivity, moving forward, looking forward, and it has had an effect on their own media who would normally have destroyed them at 2-0 down.

Theyve been honest and open even when it appeared what they were saying was stupid....

On the other hand, we have PC Cummins who follows the stock standard company line.

I kind of hope England win the final test which will set up for an epic Australian Ashes in 2025 with hopefully Bazball still going versus our conventional style. Like boxing styles set up matches.

[shoe boy]

I kind of hope England win the final test which will set up for an epic Australian Ashes in 2025 with hopefully Bazball still going versus our conventional style. Like boxing styles set up matches.[/quote]

We are a long way better side than the poms! ill go 5/0 in Australia.

[Jimmy_041]

I kind of hope England win the final test which will set up for an epic Australian Ashes in 2025 with hopefully Bazball still going versus our conventional style. Like boxing styles set up matches.

We are a long way better side than the poms! ill go 5/0 in Australia.[/quote]

I dont agree we're a way better side
Their bowlers have done way better than ours
The bowling to the tail end has been diabolical
Mark Wood was fantastic

Cummins is a crap captain.
Their tactics have been all over the place - if they existed in the first place

We better have a new captain in a couple of years

[stan]

I think 'Bazball' is a sort of coping strategy for moaning poms. And Baz is a sort of therapist, dishing out the kool-aid. It definitely seems like the type of mantra you'd cook up if you weren't that confident of winning.

The idea that England are the 'moral victors' is a kind of choose-your-own-reality that is also a coping strategy - why acknowledge you've lost when there are more comfortable alternatives?

So far, the English team and, remarkably, media, have all been on the same page. However given they almost always win home series (i.e. prior to 'Bazball'), I can't see the unity lasting if they don't get the results.

Alright there is a lot of rubbish chat and it would be nice if they could own up to some of there errors especially in the first two tests but jeepers the Aussies until this team have been the biggest shit talkers in the world for 25 years. It's kinda nice we are the cocky side and your the negative one for the first time i can remember.

Everyone seems to forget we were 1 win from 17 tests before Stokes took over, even losing at home. Nobody can tell me we havent been much better this series then we were in 2019 when we drew the series. You should have won 3 1 easily in 2019 as you were the much better side but i don't think anyone can argue this series through 4 tests the teams have been pretty even.

We aren't talking about shit on the field here.

Mate you have a bowler who writes a Column after each game calling out the opposition and saying you felt like you won't that when you lost.

You apparently aren't a result driven side.

Moral victory.

My word, it's strange bizarre stuff coming out of you players.

Is Harry Brook all there as a person?

Absolute bizarre stuff from England.

You are 2 - 1 down at home and you have an opposition that struggle in your country. But that's ok, bigger picture and all that stuff hey.