Hawthorn

[mighty_tiger_79]

2023 might be a long unsuccessful season
Off loading Smith- Gunston-Mitchell in recent seasons robs them of experienced talent

Have to rebuild which is most prob the way to go now
So far in 2023 they have been excellent footy in parts of matches
I reckons with good draft picks, by about 2025 season they can be a finals participant again

Gunston wanted to leave and get out of Melbourne. The club wanted him to stay

[Armchair expert]

So no party talked yet its been found Clarkson/Burt/Fagan didn't do anything wrong
but the issue might still continue outside the AFL "investigation".

I'm very confused

[Brodlach]

No one has any real idea of what happened except the people involved so the conjecture will continue unfortunately for both sides.

[mighty_tiger_79]

It just seems last night was the AFL using its big broom to sweep this under the mt Everest sized rug.... and washing their hands of it apart from potentially dealing with Hawthorn....

[RB]

So no party talked yet its been found Clarkson/Burt/Fagan didn't do anything wrong

There haven't been any findings made. That is, Clarkson, Burt and Fagan haven't been 'cleared' as such. So it's not really a 'conclusion' at all.

[Eagles2014]

It just seems last night was the AFL using its big broom to sweep this under the mt Everest sized rug.... and washing their hands of it apart from potentially dealing with Hawthorn....

Agree. And then they go and do the press conference at 7.45pm last night just to hide it a bit more, few questions allowed then out of there. Whole thing been handled terribly.

[Brodlach]

It just seems last night was the AFL using its big broom to sweep this under the mt Everest sized rug.... and washing their hands of it apart from potentially dealing with Hawthorn....

Agree. And then they go and do the press conference at 7.45pm last night just to hide it a bit more, few questions allowed then out of there. Whole thing been handled terribly.

Wasn’t it decided about 6pm last night between the parties and they wanted the information out as quickly as possible? Wait, as been proven, it would have leaked out

[Rik E Boy]

It just seems last night was the AFL using its big broom to sweep this under the mt Everest sized rug.... and washing their hands of it apart from potentially dealing with Hawthorn....

They are going to make them wear the worst colours in the comp...tick.

regards,

REB

[tigerpie]

It's a he said she said scenario unfortunately.
X said this but it was interpreted by y differently.
Unless the convos were taped or notes taken then there is no evidence either way.
It's a lose lose scenario.

[MW]

It's a he said she said scenario unfortunately.
X said this but it was interpreted by y differently.
Unless the convos were taped or notes taken then there is no evidence either way.
It's a lose lose scenario.

you could say that about most cases in court, and they can still establish guilt or innocence.

[Brodlach]

It's a he said she said scenario unfortunately.
X said this but it was interpreted by y differently.
Unless the convos were taped or notes taken then there is no evidence either way.
It's a lose lose scenario.

you could say that about most cases in court, and they can still establish guilt or innocence.

Court you are innocent until proven guilty, I have no idea of their guilt but they certainly were treated as if they were guilty in the beginning

[Jim05]

Leon Zwier, who has acted for the families from the outset, told the Herald Sun: "Our clients are committed to running the Human Rights Commission claim against the Hawthorn Football Club, Alastair Clarkson,
Chris Fagan and Jason Burt."

[Jimmy_041]

It's a he said she said scenario unfortunately.
X said this but it was interpreted by y differently.
Unless the convos were taped or notes taken then there is no evidence either way.
It's a lose lose scenario.

you could say that about most cases in court, and they can still establish guilt or innocence.

Court you are innocent until proven guilty, I have no idea of their guilt but they certainly were treated as if they were guilty in the beginning

^----------- this

Once the lovely left get ahold of it, you're guilty regardless of any trial.
Then you have people like Wilkinson interfering in a case and getting away with it.

[MW]

It's a he said she said scenario unfortunately.
X said this but it was interpreted by y differently.
Unless the convos were taped or notes taken then there is no evidence either way.
It's a lose lose scenario.

you could say that about most cases in court, and they can still establish guilt or innocence.

Court you are innocent until proven guilty, I have no idea of their guilt but they certainly were treated as if they were guilty in the beginning

Agreed, but if it went to court the AFL world would assume guilt all the same. My comment was in relation to he said she said evidence.

[mighty_tiger_79]

this seems to have esculated a little quicker than i imagined since the afl washed their hands of it

[Brodlach]

this seems to have esculated a little quicker than i imagined since the afl washed their hands of it

Shit has hit the fan by the sounds of it

[Jim05]

Even Gil’s magic carpet can’t make this go away.

[cracka]

this seems to have esculated a little quicker than i imagined since the afl washed their hands of it

One thing I'm confused (for lack of a better word) about in the open letter is the use of the term "their truths" & "our truths"
The accusations made (from media reports) & the denials made (from media reports) are just too far apart for me to think there can be any grey area about it.

[Wedgie]

Open letter from Carl Peterson, Cyril Rioli, Shannyn Ahsam-Rioli, Jermaine and Montanah Miller-Lewis and Leon Egan
Dated: 2 June 2023

We are some of the Indigenous families who endured racism at the Hawthorn Football Club. We were separated from our families. We were told an unborn child would ruin our futures. We were treated as special projects and control of our lives was taken from us. We told our truths in confidence, because we believed that it would bring change. And because we needed to heal and move on. That confidence was betrayed. We never asked for money. All we ever wanted was to sit with the coaches and officials we looked up to, and who had such control over our lives and our futures, and make them understand what we heard. What impact it had on our lives. And to listen to them tell us their own truths – even why they thought they were helping us. And we are gutted that these so-called AFL role models weren’t prepared to listen to our truths through mediation. We have always had the courage to listen to their truths too. That is our way. We were never scared of being named. We were never scared of what they would throw at us. We were worried about impacts on others. It doesn’t change our truth. None of us deserved this public shitshow – including them. But they have made their choice, and we will now bring them to a Human Rights Commission conciliation to listen to the truths that they don't want to hear. And if they still won't listen and learn then it will end up in the Federal Court where we will tell our truths in the witness box. But they will hear us one way or another. We also believe that with the passing of time that the Hawthorn Football Club will acknowledge that our suffering and pain was real.

We reached an agreement with the AFL not out of fear, but strength, because the AFL finally apologised to all First Nations players for racism in football. They acknowledged our pain and hurt when we were at Hawthorn. They made a legally binding promise to us to combat racism in football. And the game will be safer for all First Nations families because of it. These blokes who changed the course of our lives have never been exonerated by the AFL. The Panel never made any findings because it was shut down. We previously allowed these people to use their power to control our lives . It should never happen again.

[Wedgie]

this seems to have esculated a little quicker than i imagined since the afl washed their hands of it

One thing I'm confused (for lack of a better word) about in the open letter is the use of the term "their truths" & "our truths"
The accusations made (from media reports) & the denials made (from media reports) are just too far apart for me to think there can be any grey area about it.

It's a way of speaking.
Basically saying their side of the story and our side of the story.