whufc wrote:Unless your a superstar ruckmen I question the value that their adding.
We saw during Richmonds reign of premierships their ability to use tall midfield types as a second ruckmen with success.
We saw both Silvagni and SPP do pretty decent jobs and in Silvagni case actually contribute significantly.
At ruck contest around the ground we are seeing the likes of Hawkins and Walker dominate and end up being clearance/goal scoring threats.
Yesterday's Hawks v Cats game shows the value - someone who can offer first use to your midfield, be an extra tall around the ground taking intercept marks etc.
Silvagni contributed significantly because he didn't have to ruck against an actual ruckman half the time.
Hawkins / Walker etc are big and strong enough to be able to throw their weight around inside F50 - also allows the ruck to plant themselves down the line in the defensive press.
I'd argue a good ruckman is one of the most important pieces to a side.
Who was the significant ruckmen in the Hawks/Cats game? I was in and out of the game Geelong had Stanley and Blicavs and neither set the world alight.
Reeves was good early in the ruck contests from what I saw but did nothing around the ground with only 2 possies. Then they used Kozitschke who did next to nothing.
whufc wrote:Reeves was good early in the ruck contests from what I saw but did nothing around the ground with only 2 possies. Then they used Kozitschke who did next to nothing.
Yeah no shit, because he dislocated his shoulder towards the end of the 1st quarter when Hawthorn had control of the game and the midfield.
2nd and 3rd quarter with no recognised ruck the Hawks were smashed in the hit outs, and were just lucky they have Tom Mitchell who could shark as well as Geelong being useless inside 50 otherwise it would've been a serious blow out.
Dolphin Treasure wrote:Your an attention seeking embarsement..
whufc wrote:Reeves was good early in the ruck contests from what I saw but did nothing around the ground with only 2 possies. Then they used Kozitschke who did next to nothing.
Yeah no shit, because he dislocated his shoulder towards the end of the 1st quarter when Hawthorn had control of the game and the midfield.
2nd and 3rd quarter with no recognised ruck the Hawks were smashed in the hit outs, and were just lucky they have Tom Mitchell who could shark as well as Geelong being useless inside 50 otherwise it would've been a serious blow out.
With Carlton returning from the Gold Coast after a shock 30 point loss Port fans were hoping the real Carlton had returned, this Carlton group has a bit more too it and despite clawing back a 51 point deficit Port fell 3 points short in a game of two halves.
The first term it was all Carlton, piling on 6 goals to 2 for a 25 point margin the likes of Curnow, Martin and McKay were opening up the Port back half on the back of a scintillating term from Sam Walsh, 15 touches, 3 I50’s and 3 tackles he set the game up for the Blues as they took control in centre clearances, Pittonet on top of 1st gamer Hayes, that changed as the game went on however. Hewett, Kennedy and Cerra have added some much needed depth to the Carlton midfield and they won their fair share of ball sending it inside 50 to a promising forward set up. At the other end once more the Port forward 50 was lacking any structure. Gray and Georgiades goaled but both were more by accident than design.
After the first lot of oranges one of the Mum’s had brought along the situation didn’t much change, another 6 goals to 2, another goal to Gray and Finlayson who, while dropping some marks actually found some space and gave himself some chances ( ended up with 8 marks for the day ) while at the other end McKay, Curnow, Fischer and Silvagni all added to Port’s miserable start to 2022. Carlton were scoring at ease, from clearances and from turnovers as the Blues big men drew the returning ( and clearly under done ) Aliir up the ground to take his intercept ability away and once more the opposition are getting a good look on goal, 12.6 at half time and that’s with Curnow and Silvagni missing very gettable shots.
There was however something in the water at half time and goals to Powell-Pepper after some impressive pressure and even more impressive snap, Butters, Boak, Rozee and two towering majors from Burton wrapped around a fortunate one to Curnow had the game back alive with the margin under 3 goals with a half hour to go. Port had finally brought some front half pressure, Powell-Pepper, Rozee and Butters had upped the ante forward of centre as Hayes began to show some signs his tap work is at the level required of an AFL ruckman. There’s no doubt he has a lot of work to do on many areas of his game but his aerial work and willingness to get his knees dirty was befitting of someone who had been waiting for their first crack at AFL football.
Things got rowdy at my place at the start of the last as in the first 10 minutes Port had every opportunity to take control of the game and butchered it, not for the first time this year. Gray missed one, Motlop missed 2 shots on goal, 1 on the back of an odd decision by Gray to play on ( granted he marked on 50, well outside his range ) and what should have been 3 goals and a lead felt liked missed opportunity. But the front half game Port play was now being played, Carlton couldn’t get the ball out of the back half and it looked like a boil over was on the cards. The old Carlton were back. When Powell-Pepper again snapped truly from distance and Gray bagged his third after a mark only Gray can take I was up and down out my chair like a preferred PM Morgan Galaxy poll. As was the story of the day though the Carlton big men in the front half stodd up when required and McKay and Curnow iced the game. A late hail Mary from Amon was as close as Port got to resurrecting it’s season.
Positives – Hayes didn’t look out of his depth, Rozee stood up in the midfield, Houston and Butters continued their steady form, Burton in his 100th was immense, Gray slotted straight back in with 3 goals and looks set to stay inside 50 and Powell-Pepper continues to build some form. Despite a meagre return I though Finlayson showed he’d got the feel of the midfield coming at him with ball in hand, missed two gettable shots and dropped a couple of easy marks, with 1.2 and 8 marks it was a positive. Aliir looked cooked and clearly needed the run and Mead looks capable at the level with some more experience.
More scoring shots again from less inside 50’s but over possessing the ball with 50 more marks, 121 to 71, clearly the movement from the back half has changed in the last month as the coaches try and move the ball forward differently to a different mix.
Boon’s best – Burton, Rozee, Powell-Pepper, Butters, Houston and an honourable mention to Hayes who battled all day and gave Port a sniff in the last half.
I never had much time for Sam Powell-Pepper as I considered him something of a one trick pony. But this season I've admired how he has responded to appearing to be on the outer at Port. In a team that often looks listless and at times a little selective of when they go or not, Pep has been relentless. Watching the game last weekend I saw Pep bash through a pack and I thought 'he only knows one way' and tbh, it was the same last year. I'm not too sure why he wasn't placed on the ball a bit earlier because whenever he got involved Port seemed to benefit. You have to admire a bloke who is busting a gut to get the most out of himself and Powell Pepper is that player. Well done Pep.
I realise the difference in standards but I think Hayes has shown plenty in the last 3 years at our level. He looks to me that he has the makings of a fine ruckman as his work around the ground is good. His fitness will be tested as to where it is at as he will have little help. I think Port will go to the mid season draft looking for a ruckman. Thank god we don't have any left.
DOC wrote:I realise the difference in standards but I think Hayes has shown plenty in the last 3 years at our level. He looks to me that he has the makings of a fine ruckman as his work around the ground is good. His fitness will be tested as to where it is at as he will have little help. I think Port will go to the mid season draft looking for a ruckman. Thank god we don't have any left.
Reminds me of Tim English when he started
July 11th 2012....
Brodlach wrote:Rory Laird might end up the best IMO, he is an absolute jet. He has been in great form at the Bloods
2024 Melbourne Cup Punting Challenge winner knocking off the Pirate King!
DOC wrote:I realise the difference in standards but I think Hayes has shown plenty in the last 3 years at our level. He looks to me that he has the makings of a fine ruckman as his work around the ground is good. His fitness will be tested as to where it is at as he will have little help. I think Port will go to the mid season draft looking for a ruckman. Thank god we don't have any left.
Reminds me of Tim English when he started
A bit early for a comparison for me but the one thing I liked about English starting off was his ability to move forward and kick a goal or two, he was always a must in a SGM, now he kills me with it with no Stef in the side.
Brodlach wrote:I’ve seen a bit of him at SANFL level, not basing it on one game
Yeah, that's why I wrote "me", I'm happy to hear of anyone else's views on him.
Coming from a "sink or swim" working background I'm sort of glad he's been thrust into this situation, Kenny's wanked around for too long trying to get his favourites to justify their selection.
Hayes was drafted in the 2017 draft after 2 x U18 AA gongs, the question mark over him was his aerobic ability and that's why, despite his undoubted ability, he slipped to #47 in the draft.
He then ruptured his ACL early in 2018 after 7 matches, he came back in mid 2019 and played 11 games before no "real footy" in 2020 with the AFL stopping AFL listed players from playing SANFL. So he's had a preseason in '18, ACL, preseason and a hell of a training load in '20, a preseason in '21 then played all 18 last year before another preseason this year. You could say he's had 4 full preseason as well as 2020 where his load would have been high as he wasn't playing matches.
His high rating among Port fans, I've mentioned on here before, has me a little confused as he's only played 40 SANFL games in 4 years and at no point really demanded to be selected, sure he's had Lycett, Ryder, Dixon, Frampton, Ladhams ahead of him at times so it's probably only in the last 18 months he's been "next in line" as the #1 ruck and Ladhams got picked ahead of him through 2021.
I really liked his game Sunday, it's clear his tap work is of quality, but I still remain unconvinced that he's got the tank and what I've documented above should have him in the condition he needs to be in to play at his level. He's got a 3 month run at it now to prove he can do it. Sure hope he does.
Booney wrote:I really liked his game Sunday, it's clear his tap work is of quality, but I still remain unconvinced that he's got the tank and what I've documented above should have him in the condition he needs to be in to play at his level. He's got a 3 month run at it now to prove he can do it. Sure hope he does.
Absolutely, he has that really nice soft touch when he gets his hand to the ball and puts it where he wants - hopefully "match fitness" will help him to build that tank a bit, but would definitely benefit from being the second ruck and used in spurts late in quarters.
Guess time will tell.
The Ladhams trade is hurting a bit now.. I guess Port expected Dixon and/or Finlayson to be able to fill that void.
Dolphin Treasure wrote:Your an attention seeking embarsement..
Booney wrote:I really liked his game Sunday, it's clear his tap work is of quality, but I still remain unconvinced that he's got the tank and what I've documented above should have him in the condition he needs to be in to play at his level. He's got a 3 month run at it now to prove he can do it. Sure hope he does.
Absolutely, he has that really nice soft touch when he gets his hand to the ball and puts it where he wants - hopefully "match fitness" will help him to build that tank a bit, but would definitely benefit from being the second ruck and used in spurts late in quarters.
Guess time will tell.
The Ladhams trade is hurting a bit now.. I guess Port expected Dixon and/or Finlayson to be able to fill that void.
Short term, it is, long term lets see how Josh Sinn works out.
The Bedge wrote:The Ladhams trade is hurting a bit now. I guess Port expected Dixon and/or Finlayson to be able to fill that void.
F***** oath it is, just another one of Ken's inability to be able to roughen up the feathers of a young lad and get him focused on what he's getting paid decent coin for.
I wish Ladhams all the best, as I do with Stengle, Brad Crouch or anyone else prepared to leave their comfort zone to rectify a wrong.
Booney wrote: Short term, it is, long term lets see how Josh Sinn works out.
We're not winning a flag this season so I don't mind a bit of experimenting and looking at the long term goal, Kenny still has belief though and he'll be looking to find moderate success to keep his job, he'll see as finishing in the 8 and winning an elimination final as success.
We're probably going to lose Travis and Robbie at the same time and that is going to be very painful.
Booney wrote: Short term, it is, long term lets see how Josh Sinn works out.
We're not winning a flag this season so I don't mind a bit of experimenting and looking at the long term goal, Kenny still has belief though and he'll be looking to find moderate success to keep his job, he'll see as finishing in the 8 and winning an elimination final as success.
We're probably going to lose Travis and Robbie at the same time and that is going to be very painful.
Boak has at least 2 more in him, maybe 3 the way he's going, probably Gray's last year this year.
whufc wrote:Would making finals and winning an elimination save Hinkley.
Surely that wouldn't constitute a 'success' given Port by their own admission were in the premiership discussion prior to round 1.
Port fans vote with their feet, we've seen it before, we couldn't afford to keep Hinkley next year without a flag this year and clearly that isn't happening.
