Israel/Hamas Conflict

[Jimmy_041]

It’s not over and there is absolutely nothing to celebrate.

Great deal for Hamas
But it would appear they think Palestinian lives aren't worth as much as an Israeli life

[stan]

Hamas and Israel are missing some genuine leadership throughout all of this. I listen to a podcast that interviewed key Israeli figures and then one of Yassir Arafats sons and the message was clear apart from criticism of either side, that leadership on all sides has failed terrible here.

The IDF have been nothing but brutal through this, It seems clea whey they wanted to lock the boarders and work there way from North to South to squeeze the Hamas militants and hence why they have been so keen to get in the Rafah.

The problem is civilians have paid the price here.

Saying all of that, I can see why Hamas are happy to take the deal.

[Psyber]

It’s not over and there is absolutely nothing to celebrate.

Agreed!

[dedja]

Pro Palestinian protestors have scaled the roof of Parliament House in Canberra, unfurling large protest banners and shouting slogans.

Security are looking up scratching their heads … how the faark did they do that? Keystone cops.

[Wedgie]

Pro Palestinian protestors have scaled the roof of Parliament House in Canberra, unfurling large protest banners and shouting slogans.

Security are looking up scratching their heads … how the faark did they do that? Keystone cops.

Isn't it just a matter of walking up a grassy slope?

Why do these idiots do this though, I'm all for their cause and Israel should never have happened or still be happening but I lose interest when protesters do things like this or stop traffic.
They do more harm than good for the cause.

[Jimmy_041]

Pro Palestinian protestors have scaled the roof of Parliament House in Canberra, unfurling large protest banners and shouting slogans.

Security are looking up scratching their heads … how the faark did they do that? Keystone cops.

Isn't it just a matter of walking up a grassy slope?

Why do these idiots do this though, I'm all for their cause and Israel should never have happened or still be happening but I lose interest when protesters do things like this or stop traffic.
They do more harm than good for the cause.

Uni students in Hong Kong
Got what they wanted (which was fair enough)
Doubled down for more
Some ended up in jail - some for life
Now they're all walking around

[dedja]

Isn't it just a matter of walking up a grassy slope?

That’s the current theory on how they got there

Apparently a motsa was spent a few years ago to put up a glass barricade on the roof to stop this exact thing happening … nek minnit

[cracka]

This is one issue I don't understand. Why is everyone pro Palestine/Hamas. I was under the impression Isreal was for a 2 state solution, the only stumbling block is Hamas refusal to accept Israel as an identity.

[Wedgie]

I was under the impression Isreal was for a 2 state solution,

That's where the a lot of the problem started, have a look at what the Jews state originally offered was and what they occupy now. They've been gradually expelling the Palestinians and committing a form of gencide.
A religion should never have been given their own state in the first place, it was a f*** up because the Poms and UN wanted to wash their hands of the area after originally occupying Palestine.

The only stumbling block is Hamas refusal to accept Israel as an identity.

That's not even close to even being close to the only stumbling block and is a result of the what's been happening above for years.
And its not just Hamas that refuse to accept Israel as an identiy, over 30 countries don't. I don't, millions of people don't.

[RB]

This is one issue I don't understand. Why is everyone pro Palestine/Hamas. I was under the impression Isreal was for a 2 state solution, the only stumbling block is Hamas refusal to accept Israel as an identity.

Wedgie's post probably covers most of this, but just a couple of other factors to consider.

You refer to everyone being pro Palestine/Hamas - while many if not most Australians sympathise with the Palestinian people, the same is not true of Hamas, which is a terrorist group, whose political arm has been in power (sort of) for a couple of decades in Gaza, but NOT the West Bank (the other major group of Palestinian territories). So important to make the distinction between Palestinian civilians, and Hamas.

The current Israeli administration (which of course does not reflect the views of all Israelis) asserts that they are open to a two-state solution, on certain conditions. In practice, it is hard to see the Netanyahu government accepting any two-state solution at all, even one where Hamas theoretically ceased to exist. Some Israeli opposition parties would accept a two-state solution with conditions that the Palestinian Liberation Organization (in power in the West Bank but not Gaza) might plausibly agree to.

Of course, there would be an enormous number of additional terms to work out, including but by no means limited to the location of borders between any potential future states. That I see as being as big a sticking point as considerations regarding identity and recognition.

[Trader]

Has it really been long enough since Adolf?

I didn't think the world would be so supportive of an anti-Israel group yet.

[dedja]

I suspect they’ve burnt most of the support and sympathy tickets they received since then by their actions.

One of the many, many problems is that the Palestinians cannot reconcile the differences between themselves to provide a united front, hence the splinter between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza. Even their closest allies such an Iran, Lebanon and Syria can’t agree.

Israel is very good at organising themselves, and together with the support of the US, the (splintered) Palestinian leadership rabble have no hope of being able to be considered as equals.

Whilst there are many varying views within Israel, there is significant acceptance of a 2 State Solution, just as there are many hardliners who have an equal ‘from the river to the sea’ mentality as their most reviled opponents.

Both sides have had atrocities committed against them and unfortunately also by them, so even after the holocaust, Israel have managed to greatly lose their moral high ground.

It’s a spectacular mess that has no inkling of a workable solution.

In the meantime, millions of people suffer because of the stupidity and immorality of their leaders.

[Wedgie]

Has it really been long enough since Adolf?

I didn't think the world would be so supportive of an anti-Israel group yet.

The jews have been behaving like Adolf that's the problem!
You would have thought if any religion learnt to not persecute others it would have been them but nup.

[RB]

Has it really been long enough since Adolf?

I didn't think the world would be so supportive of an anti-Israel group yet.

Weird post, hope it wasn't specifically in response to mine.

[Jimmy_041]

The entire place has been a ****-up since BC
I avoid any discussion on what / who is right and wrong.
There is so much propaganda - mis / disinformation - I'm not sure anyone knows WTF is going on or how to fix it

[cracka]

I was under the impression Isreal was for a 2 state solution,

That's where the a lot of the problem started, have a look at what the Jews state originally offered was and what they occupy now. They've been gradually expelling the Palestinians and committing a form of gencide.
A religion should never have been given their own state in the first place, it was a f*** up because the Poms and UN wanted to wash their hands of the area after originally occupying Palestine.

The only stumbling block is Hamas refusal to accept Israel as an identity.

That's not even close to even being close to the only stumbling block and is a result of the what's been happening above for years.
And its not just Hamas that refuse to accept Israel as an identiy, over 30 countries don't. I don't, millions of people don't.

So what should happen to the Jewish people of Israel.
Again, this is an issue I have little understanding of. To me (with my little understanding & listening to both sides of the issue) this just seems to be a political alliance with the far right supporting Israel & the far left supporting Palestine.

[Wedgie]

So what should happen to the Jewish people of Israel.

Ideally? Send them back to wherever their parents/grand parents came from.
Won't happen, so a start would be adhering to the various agreements they have made, not attempting to wipe out Palestinians or treating them as 2nd class citizens in their own land and defintely not claiming Jerusalem as their capital. They keep taking, taking, taking until the Palestinians are forced to react, stop doing that taking would also be good.

In an ideal world the area would have left it as it was as the state of Palenstine with Muslims, Christians and Jews all living together, pretty well much the same as what happens in most countries.

[cracka]

So what should happen to the Jewish people of Israel.

Ideally? Send them back to wherever their parents/grand parents came from.
Won't happen, so a start would be adhering to the various agreements they have made, not attempting to wipe out Palestinians or treating them as 2nd class citizens in their own land and defintely not claiming Jerusalem as their capital. They keep taking, taking, taking until the Palestinians are forced to react, stop doing that taking would also be good.
Should have left it as it was as the state of Palenstine with Muslims, Christians and Jews all living together, pretty well much the same as what happens in most countries.

If only they could all live together in peace.

[dedja]

[cracka]

And its not just Hamas that refuse to accept Israel as an identiy, over 30 countries don't. I don't, millions of people don't.

Just doing some quick research on this

As of December 2020, Israel has received diplomatic recognition from 164 of the other 192 United Nation member states, and also maintains bilateral ties with all of the Permanent Five. 28 member states have either never recognized Israel or have withdrawn their recognition; others have severed diplomatic relations without explicitly withdrawing their recognition. Additionally, many non-recognizing countries have challenged Israel's existence—predominantly those in the Muslim world—due to significant animosity stemming from the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and the Arab–Israeli conflict.
The 28 UN member states that do not recognize Israel: 15 members of the Arab League (Algeria, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Syria, Tunisia, and Yemen); ten non-Arab members of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Niger, and Pakistan); and Cuba, North Korea, and Venezuela.
Really not surprising which countries don't recognise Isreal.

Out of curiosity

As of June 2024, the State of Palestine is recognized as a sovereign state by 145 of the 193 member states of the United Nations. It has been a non-member observer state of the United Nations General Assembly since November 2012.
Europe: Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Moldova, Netherlands, North Macedonia, Norway, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, England, Monaco, San Marino, Portugal
America: Bahamas, Canada, Mexico, Panama, United States, Trinidad and Tobago, Barbados, Jamaica
Asia: Japan, Myanmar, Singapore, South Korea, Armenia
Middle East: Israel
Oceania:, Fiji, Kiribati, Federated States of Micronesia, Nauru, Australia, New Zealand, Samoa, Solomon Islands, Marshall Islands, Palau, Tuvalu, Tonga
Africa: Cameroon, Eritrea
Among the G20, nine countries (Argentina, Brazil, China, India, Indonesia, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, and Turkey, as well as permanent invitee Spain) have recognized Palestine as a state, while ten countries (Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Mexico, South Korea, the United Kingdom, and the United States) have not. Although these countries generally support some form of a two-state solution to the conflict, they take the position that their recognition of a Palestinian state is conditioned to direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.