The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[Tassie Blues]

10k is only 1000 less than now

Can you explain how 10K is 1000 less than 8-9K?

my high school english teacher would be so disappointed i can hear him now "always proof read your work"

[wild dog]

10k is only 1000 less than now

Can you explain how 10K is 1000 less than 8-9K?

my high school english teacher would be so disappointed i can hear him now "always proof read your work"

Well I was educated in Lizbeff, but my teachers used to encourage a more sophisticated approach than a simple surface analysis. For instance compare the Crows crowds
source: http://www.footywire.com/afl
Match Type finals and regular Home Games

2007 477,199 average 41,992
2008 485,140 average 40,428
2009 477,199 average 39,767
2010 393,406 average 35,764
2011 385,221 average 35,020
2012 481,713 average 37,055
2013 370,730 average 33,703
2014 528,508 average 48,046
2015 472,734 average 47,273
2016 566,619 average 47,218

Port
Match Type finals and regular Home Games
2007 389,275 average 29,944
2008 262,258 average 23,842
2009 267,839 average 24,349
2010 253,481 average 23,044
2011 238,437 average 21,676
2012 219,017 average 19,911
2013 296,068 average 26,915
2014 540,344 average 45,029
2015 481,737 average 43,794
2016 436,310 average 39,665

I look at the above and see a general decline in numbers between 2007-2013 inclusive, how about you? I would also add that if the State Government pumped a few hundred million into the SANFL, we would see massive increases in attendance.

Interesting that combining both the Crows and Port at their peak, still cant beat the historical SANFL crowds when the population was smaller.

What I want to know from the pro AFL reserves advocates, is why do you think Crows spectators are not going to watch the Crowserves finals games. Even when SANFL teams reserves participate in finals, you get a turn up, yet Crowserves, with the best publicity machine in the state, who brag about having the highest attendances in the land, can only attract a couple of hundred supporters to their finals games.

[RB]

10k is only 1000 less than now

Can you explain how 10K is 1000 less than 8-9K?

my high school english teacher would be so disappointed i can hear him now "always proof read your work"

He/she might also mention using a capital letter at the start of a sentence, capitalising proper nouns, run-on sentences, using direct speech properly, capitalising the letter 'I' and putting full stops at the end of a sentence...

[MW]

How many Crows AFL supporters actually support another SANFL side?
I have no interest in crows res games but happily go to westies

[bennymacca]

Do you think the fact that there is no home games has an effect?

[Magellan]

Wigg played well on the weekend, brushed his opponents aside with ease

Not sure I agree with your assessment. I think I'll have to mullet over.

In fact, I'd go to such lengths as to say he's only a fringe player.

[Magellan]

Do you think the fact that there is no home games has an effect?

No. The fact Crows fans are reluctant to attend all grounds, including what they'd consider their home ground in finals, suggests they're unlikely to come out and attend a 'home' game.

[Tassie Blues]

10k is only 1000 less than now

Can you explain how 10K is 1000 less than 8-9K?

my high school english teacher would be so disappointed i can hear him now "always proof read your work"

He/she might also mention using a capital letter at the start of a sentence, capitalising proper nouns, run-on sentences, using direct speech properly, capitalising the letter 'I' and putting full stops at the end of a sentence...

Sorry I didn't realise internet forum work would count to my end of year results.

[Jim05]

Do you think the fact that there is no home games has an effect?

No, you only have to look at Port's crowds. It's pretty well known that most AFL supporters don't give 2 shits about their Ressies unless there is a big star returning from injury, plenty of VFL crowds under 1000 and a Collingwood v Essendon game would be lucky to draw 2000 tops. Their GF usually only gets 12-15k and that's in a comp that is 90% AFL reserves sides

[wild dog]

How many Crows AFL supporters actually support another SANFL side?
I have no interest in crows res games but happily go to westies

Could be, but if that's the case how does the inclusion of the reserves benefit the competition? Less rounds, byes, smaller crowds, totally compromised competition, no atmosphere, lack of integrity and reduced media interest beyond who will make next weeks AFL team.

The possibility of increased television audience when the Crowserves play; positives are there for the Crows and their sponsors, some spin off for the opposition sponsors I guess. Negative is once again the Crows are getting more and more exposure.

[therisingblues]

Dude, Wedgie posted them just before I answered you.
Now that we have them... Thoughts?

thanks wild dog

crowd number are about as expected from 2012 with the exception of 2014. decline started in 2012 2 years before AFL teams started but i guess you need someone to blame

Well TBH the 2012 result surprised me, but I expected 2013 to be down. That was the year the SANFL allowed Port to transfer players from other clubs to the Magpies list, in contravention of their own laws. The year was plagued by talk of the reserves joining and had an immediate effect.
I notice you failed to spot the cycle of peaks and troughs throughout Wild Dog's analysis.
I guess life would be simpler without any thoughts of my own and being bothered by the fact that I understand what a mitigating circumstance might be. I'll just let these words fly over your head and you go on believing that anyone who doesn't like the reserves in the SANFL just "needs someone to blame".

[MW]

How many Crows AFL supporters actually support another SANFL side?
I have no interest in crows res games but happily go to westies

Could be, but if that's the case how does the inclusion of the reserves benefit the competition? Less rounds, byes, smaller crowds, totally compromised competition, no atmosphere, lack of integrity and reduced media interest beyond who will make next weeks AFL team.

The possibility of increased television audience when the Crowserves play; positives are there for the Crows and their sponsors, some spin off for the opposition sponsors I guess. Negative is once again the Crows are getting more and more exposure.

These are the things the SANFL needed to take into consideration when allowing Crows and Port to field reserves sides.
The previous model was just not working for the AFL clubs (I know that does not matter to everyone on here).

[tipper]

How many Crows AFL supporters actually support another SANFL side?
I have no interest in crows res games but happily go to westies

Could be, but if that's the case how does the inclusion of the reserves benefit the competition? Less rounds, byes, smaller crowds, totally compromised competition, no atmosphere, lack of integrity and reduced media interest beyond who will make next weeks AFL team.

The possibility of increased television audience when the Crowserves play; positives are there for the Crows and their sponsors, some spin off for the opposition sponsors I guess. Negative is once again the Crows are getting more and more exposure.

These are the things the SANFL needed to take into consideration when allowing Crows and Port to field reserves sides.
The previous model was just not working for the AFL clubs (I know that does not matter to anyone on here).

fixed that for you.

why should the sanfl clubs care if hte previous model wasnt working for the afl clubs? the model that brought all of the premierships that they have won by the way. the crows wanted this, they lied, cajoled, and alledgedly outright threatened the voting delegates to get what they wanted, and you think they are blameless in this?

dont worry, i blame the clubs (or more accurately, the delegates) too, hence i havent set foot back at prospect since the decision was made. the last sanfl game i saw was out at elizabeth ffs and north werent even playing (their last home game of 2013) but trying to paint the crows as all sweet and innocent is a joke. they are up to their elbows in this shit with the rest of those responsible

[MW]

everybody not good enough for you? fair dinkum...
Where did I say they were not blameless and where did I paint the crows as sweet and innocent? calm down mate.

[johntheclaret]

How many Crows AFL supporters actually support another SANFL side?
I have no interest in crows res games but happily go to westies

Could be, but if that's the case how does the inclusion of the reserves benefit the competition? Less rounds, byes, smaller crowds, totally compromised competition, no atmosphere, lack of integrity and reduced media interest beyond who will make next weeks AFL team.

The possibility of increased television audience when the Crowserves play; positives are there for the Crows and their sponsors, some spin off for the opposition sponsors I guess. Negative is once again the Crows are getting more and more exposure.

These are the things the SANFL needed to take into consideration when allowing Crows and Port to field reserves sides.
The previous model was just not working for the AFL clubs (I know that does not matter to everyone on here).

I think they did consider those points MW

IIRC some of the key promises were:
A new self financing TV deal which would be paid for by sponsorship
An increase in attendance with the Adelaide Reserves attracting an extra 4,000 fans to each of their games
Promotion of the SANFL and in particular, the promotion of the Reserves games by the Crows during the week leading up to the game.
Less byes as the competition would have 10 teams instead of 9
Playing to the line, which I guess the SANFL would have assumed meant trying their best every week.

What in reality the SANFL got was:
A TV deal costing over $1m p.a. For two years of which the SANFL are stumping up at least $300k a year to cover the shortfall.
A TV deal that didn't cost either AFL Club a bean but promotes their 2 Reserves teams in over 50% of the televised games.
A reduction in attendances as not only did they fail to deliver the magical 4,000 fans per game, but also drove genuine SANFL fans away.
Some clubs, instead of being able to cash in on the increased attendances, despite fans of Resreves teams getting in for free, actually make a loss when they play the Reserves.
Instead of increased promotion of the SANFL, media coverage has actually gone down as the two Reserves teams are taking what little media coverage the league used to get.
An increase in the number of byes as the SANFL try to artificially stretch the season out with fewer games.
Instead of playing to the line, the Reserves team have chosen to ignore the values of the SANFL by using games only to suit the AFL Clubs. Resting players at 3/4 time, etc.

I think the SANFL were either naïve or just plain stupid to believe what the Adelaide Crows were selling them, and whether they were scared of the empty threats from Adelaide or dazzled by the the lure of $50k a club and bright new dawn, either way the thing they are guilty of is gross misconduct.

What can't be argued any longer, is that their presence in the SANFL has had a damaging effect on the league and its clubs.

[MW]

Thanks for the info mate
What was Ports involvement in all of this? Did they just sit back and let Crows take the blame and take the same model or were they involved in the negotiations with SANFL also?

[heater31]

Thanks for the info mate
What was Ports involvement in all of this? Did they just sit back and let Crows take the blame and take the same model or were they involved in the negotiations with SANFL also?

They pretty much sat back and let the Cows do all the dirty work. Only when it looked like getting up did Port speak up and ask for a similar arrangement.

[tipper]

Thanks for the info mate
What was Ports involvement in all of this? Did they just sit back and let Crows take the blame and take the same model or were they involved in the negotiations with SANFL also?

They pretty much sat back and let the Cows do all the dirty work. Only when it looked like getting up did Port speak up and ask for a similar arrangement.

probably the smartest thing the club has ever done.

[johntheclaret]

Thanks for the info mate
What was Ports involvement in all of this? Did they just sit back and let Crows take the blame and take the same model or were they involved in the negotiations with SANFL also?

I think they sat back for a while and then came in later with their own deal which is why you have 10 teams but 3 different sets of rules, one for Adelaide, one for Port and one for the 8 genuine SANFL clubs.

Just another reason why the current situation is fundamentally flawed.

And why the league has 10 teams but the Reserves only has 9, which in itself is an added cost to the SANFL clubs as their league team is playing at one venue whilst their reserves team is playing at another

[goddy11]

JTC. To add to your point, what does Port actually give back to the SANFL. They pay no fees to SANFL clubs, play matches at Alberton, discourage their supporters from travelling to away games ala the South game at Noarlunga. At least the old Magpies added to player development.