SANFL crowd numbers

[johntheclaret]

@JK

The scheduling of the Centrals v Norwood game at Elizabeth was not due to the AFL entry in to the competition. It was due to a request from channel Seven to play the match at an earlier time slot. Can't blame the Crows or Magpies for that!

Lol and why did 7 become the broadcaster this year?

I wasn't going to point that out in fear of being a no afl half brain

[Dutchy]

While it has been a cold and wet winter, the weekends have not been too bad and probably better than average as far as weather affecting the crowds.

Also I think the programming of night matches early in the year was much better than previous years to maximise crowds.

[matt35]

@Dutchy

Probably right re actual weekends, they haven't been all that bad this year, although I can certainly think of a few potential big crowd pulling games that were weather affected, Sturt v Port being one. Friday nights on the other hand were hit pretty hard, as I said three games off the top of my head were played on absolute shockers. The wisdom of playing Friday nights in June, July and August is beyond me, you really have to get extremely lucky with weather for it to work.

[mighty_tiger_79]

Some of the best experiences are attending matches in the rain

a glenelg v south match from a number of years ago immediately springs to mind at glenelg oval

[MAY-Z]

Laptop with my figures being serviced at the moment should have something done by this time next week.

@PhilH for each average figure you present I would appreciate also seeing variance and median. If it's not too much trouble, natch.

(edit) and another thing ... perhaps any argument regarding crowd changes across 2013-2014 ought to consider games between the sovereign 8 clubs in each year, among other things.

I'd be happy to knock up a few scripts to automate the above; got a bit of time on my hands for programming projects. PM me if you like.

From my crowd figures I have before this year:
Year Average Median
1997 3219 2732
1998 3689 3196
1999 3195 2706
2000 2957 2800
2001 3106 2677
2002 3101 2489
2003 2890 2502
2004 2817 2653
2005 2743 2591
2006 2874 2684
2007 2867 2565
2008 3065 2762
2009 2924 2725
2010 3073 2885
2011 3201 2888
2012 2880 2507
2013 2622 2432
2014 2812 (from Phils' post, and since I don't have all figures he can fill in the median)

Edit: There is a difference in average for 2013 from what Phil has, it's because the SANFL Annual Report differs from figures sometimes in the newspaper). I have changed some of mine to the Annual Report. It may also have happened in previous years too if this is the case before.

So for everyone hailing this as a great result, the average crowd numbers for 2014 are higher than 2 of the previous 17 years.

That leaves 2 trains of thought:

1) If this is such a success it really does show how irrelevent the competion is becoming or;
2) Some supporters have definitely been lost and there have been a few replacementents, what remains to be seen is if these replacements will be long term (especially goven Walker wont play every year etc)

[bennymacca]

2) Some supporters have definitely been lost and there have been a few replacementents, what remains to be seen is if these replacements will be long term (especially goven Walker wont play every year etc)

This is what has happened I think.

Another thing - yes that crows glenelg game had tex playing, but even without him it definitely would have pulled a bigger than average crowd in any event. At a guess it still could have gotten 5-6k given it was on Anzac weekend etc. another reason why just completely ignoring the game is wrong

[wild dog]

2) Some supporters have definitely been lost and there have been a few replacementents, what remains to be seen is if these replacements will be long term (especially goven Walker wont play every year etc)

This is what has happened I think.

Another thing - yes that crows glenelg game had tex playing, but even without him it definitely would have pulled a bigger than average crowd in any event. At a guess it still could have gotten 5-6k given it was on Anzac weekend etc. another reason why just completely ignoring the game is wrong

Glenelg is one of the top supported clubs and has an Oval in an ideal location. It is quite capable of drawing big crowds without the aid of Tex Walker or the Adelaide Crows.

[therisingblues]

2) Some supporters have definitely been lost and there have been a few replacementents, what remains to be seen is if these replacements will be long term (especially goven Walker wont play every year etc)

This is what has happened I think.

Another thing - yes that crows glenelg game had tex playing, but even without him it definitely would have pulled a bigger than average crowd in any event. At a guess it still could have gotten 5-6k given it was on Anzac weekend etc. another reason why just completely ignoring the game is wrong

The two times I saw Sturt vs Crows this year there was an eerie silence after each Crow goal, a quick wander around the ground revealed perhaps 20 supporters in Crows gear, some of them also wearing Sturt gear. I read a post by one of the Jims who barrack for Norwood and he noticed the same phenomena at Norwood /Crows games. I also note the regularity that it is mentioned that there are almost no Crows fans at games.
Why do you have so much faith in a "non Tex Crows supporters resurgence" for just that one game when I have read no reports of Crows fans turning up in numbers for any other SANFL match?
I'd estimate about 3000 if Tex didn't play. Breakdown: 2,500 Glenelg fans, 300 Crows fans, 200 Crows fans also donned in Glenelg gear.
And based on my observations I think I have erred on the generous side regarding the Crows turnout.

[bennymacca]

So given the crows have the one of the highest average crowds, why do you think that is? Glenelg fans making sure they see that game over others?

[therisingblues]

Novelty factor.
I'd like to see a comparison of crows crowds for the second half of the year vs the first half. It seemed at Unley it was a much smaller crowd the second time around.
If I'm right in my hypothesis, expect a drop again next year and in to the future.

[bennymacca]

Novelty factor.
I'd like to see a comparison of crows crowds for the second half of the year vs the first half. It seemed at Unley it was a much smaller crowd the second time around.
If I'm right in my hypothesis, expect a drop again next year and in to the future.

Maybe read the thread and you can see similar questions and at least some responses

[tipper]

so, with the novelty factor of the reserves sides this season and the crows members getting free entry(and i am perfectly happy to leave in numbers for all of the "exceptional" games, they need the boost), crowd attendances are only just above the average of last season.....which was an historical low figure.... and in fact are only higher than two seasons going all the way back to 1997 (great work on hte numbers Spelly) and yet it is the "No AFL" posters that are distorting the numbers

who is cherry picking again?

[Gozu]

While it has been a cold and wet winter

The winters are remarkably mild!

[Dog Day Afternoon]

I put the numbers into a graph to try and analyse them. I am not clever enough to paste here but what I could see was while there has been the occasional up year it has been followed by 2 or 3 down years. Since the beginning of this series the trend is most definitely down. In fact since the peak back in 1998 average crowds have declined by about 24% despite an increasing population.

My summary - the events of this year have done nothing to change the trend in any significant way. This is interesting because as far as my club is concerned this year has been poor. It would appear that on-field performance leads to an improvement in figures at a club level but of course for one club to improve another must decline. I am still worried that the impact of letting people in for free may mean that $s take a bigger hit than crowd numbers.

[therisingblues]

Novelty factor.
I'd like to see a comparison of crows crowds for the second half of the year vs the first half. It seemed at Unley it was a much smaller crowd the second time around.
If I'm right in my hypothesis, expect a drop again next year and in to the future.

Maybe read the thread and you can see similar questions and at least some responses

I know the novelty idea has been mentioned before, and I believe it's very valid and explains the earlier boost in crows crowds accurately. I haven't read anything that I think holds water in response to that unless someone has actually posted comparative figures from the first half vs second half of this year and those figures somehow discredit the novelty theory. If those figures exist please enlighten me, it could be a positive sign for the future

[Aerie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Aust ... all_League

Total minor round crowd this year of 252,947 the 2nd lowest in the last 12 years. Only last year was lower.

Games Involving SANFL Clubs only in 2014 averaged 2588 per game.

In last 12 years, previous lowest average per game was 2624 in 2013 and highest in last 12 years was 3235 per game in 2011.

Average crowd per game with AFL involved teams was 3177. Overall 2810 per game.

There was a significant dip in 2012 when ticket prices were raised to $14 and every AFL game was shown live on Foxtel for the first time. A dip again in 2013 with the AFL Reserves debate in full swing. With commercial coverage and AFL sides in the competition, there is less attendance again in 2014 for games not involving AFL Reserves. There are 650 people per game who were attending in 2011 not attending now to support their SANFL club, unless an AFL team is involved.

In summary, the interest in the 8 SANFL clubs is at an all time low. The interest in the SANFL competition is about the same, thanks to the AFL Reserves teams.

I expect the SANFL finals to be well attended for the same reason the Power and Crows are getting good crowds this season - Adelaide Oval.

The SANFL clubs, and therefore competition, are becoming more reliant on the AFL than ever before. It would appear this is more by design than fate.

[saintal]

Good summary there Aerie.

[CUTTERMAN]

So given the crows have the one of the highest average crowds, why do you think that is? Glenelg fans making sure they see that game over others?

This average crowd figure for Adelaide is THE biggest misrepresentation of numbers I've ever seen! The Bush's would've been proud of it!
Everyone knows their supporters haven't turned up to games, that they claim ownership of other supporters' interest is laughable.

[RB]

Everyone knows their supporters haven't turned up to games, that they claim ownership of other supporters' interest is laughable.

Yeah, surprised they haven't been mocked for this. Only that pathetic franchise could make those claims.

[matt35]

Clinging to the drop in crowds for second games involving Adelaide hits one rather big problem. It's called the reality that crowds generally drop off in the cooler wetter months. So, shock horror, there were higher crowds at games involving the Crows the first time round, i.e earlier in the season, than there were second time round, i.e during the Winter when crowds always drop. No surprises there at all. Once we start having crowd figures for games involving the Crows next year, then we can start making genuine comparisons and seeing if there is a drop off. But comparing early season and late season crowds simply isn't comparing apples with apples when crowds always fall in the second half of the season.