Lessons Learned - Building a House

[Squawk]

We're about to start building a house but haven't signed our lives away just yet to the contract.

Has anyone recently built a house and if so, can you provide any advice based on the lessons you learned?

It has certainly been challenging so far - getting the builder to do things in a timely manner like plans, engineering, soil tests, estimations etc.

My biggest lesson thus far is that whatever the house costs, add 40-50% again for all the rest of the stuff they don't count in their "display" prices. This has been a complete JOKE!

I've also quickly learned that they add their own margin on to every sub-contractors price.

I want to get a completion date in the contract (eg 26weeks) with a penalty clause if they run over time on that. I'm not holding great hopes here but any tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated!

[Dutchy]

very funny Sqwuak as I was only thinking today on starting a thread along the same lines!

Im about to start Building in Flagstaff Hill...u?

Ive heard all the horror stories and have taken a while to build up the courage to do it.

Luckily the builder we are going through is from my wifes family so things are goin OK so far. You right though there are so many things that you need to think of and add to the basic price e.g. floor coverings, retaining walls, fences, outside paving, landscaping, pergolas, roller doors extras extras extras!!!!!!

would love to hear form anyone who has gone through the building experience and survived!

[Squawk]

Im about to start Building in Flagstaff Hill...u?

Eden Hills with Rossdale Homes.
Actually had an afterthought that maybe I should have posted this in "Entertainment"

[mal]

very funny Sqwuak as I was only thinking today on starting a thread along the same lines!

Im about to start Building in Flagstaff Hill...u?

Ive heard all the horror stories and have taken a while to build up the courage to do it.

Luckily the builder we are going through is from my wifes family so things are goin OK so far. You right though there are so many things that you need to think of and add to the basic price e.g. floor coverings, retaining walls, fences, outside paving, landscaping, pergolas, roller doors extras extras extras!!!!!!

would love to hear form anyone who has gone through the building experience and survived!

When I was a brickies labourer jobs got done on time.
These days not the case

[Punk Rooster]

When I was a brickies labourer jobs got done on time.
These days not the case

Yes, I heard your Penny Farthing was the fastest Farthing in the West! Followed by your nights doing the Charleston at the country dances (at Modbury), followed by a visit to the local two-up school...!

[heater31]

Squak, I work in the industry and I am also still studying at uni

the amount of time you says it takes to complete tasks is a very difficult juggling act as engineering is conducted by a consultant who in turn also consult on other projects. Estimating takes time as you cant miss anything otherwise the estimator and the client are both out of pocket.


Beware of the 'Package Home' builders as you say there are hidden extras that should be spelt out in the contractual documents. what you see in the display villages is the BARE minimum ie four walls, floor, roof and the cheapest fixtures available. anything different and they will charge you.

the margin on subbies prices is cover to the builder ar5e if the subbie mucks up his price (trust me it does happen) this margin should be in the region of 5 to 7%


Very optimistic with your completion date IMHO aim for 32 weeks also you will find that no builder in South Australia will have liquidated damages clauses (penaltys) for domestic projects in their contracts as this is normally found in commerical contracts.

Best advice that I can give to you is that if the builder does agree to a certain completion date MAKE HIM STICK TO IT. if it looks like hes getting behind get on his case as we hate nothing more than a nagging client. also visit the site regularly to make sure they wont screw you over by being slack.

any other issues drop me a PM and i will endevour to answer it.

[Squawk]

Cheers H31

[MightyEagles]

Go with steal frames for the house, no white ants.

[Punk Rooster]

Go with steal frames for the house, no white ants.

Ridiculous & ignorant comment. Leave your wild stabs in the dark for your Melbourne Cup bets...

[Punk Rooster]

Pay attention to the finished result of the slab.
Australian Standards recognise the slab itself as a physical barrier against termites (in conjuction with physical barriers applied to the penetrations, prior to the slab being poured), but concretors are required to set-down the wet areas, & they often do this by boxing up with formwork & pins- it's these pins when they are removed, that cause problems (pinholes) if not fixed before the concrete goes off.
These pinholes are in breach of the AS, as the slab has had it's integrity compromised- & quite often, the timber stud-work is erected over these very holes, allowing termites direct access to the bottom plate.
No pinholes, no problems!

*An external perimeter treatment is also required to the slab edge- something that quite often gets overlooked ("I thought the Builder treated that" or "We had under the slab treated").
This is something home-owners may have to arrange themselves.

The chemicals have a life of 5-10 years only (depending on the termiticide used)
Choosing the right physical barrier, will allow lifelong protection (provided the slab itself does not alter over time)

[heater31]

Go with steal frames for the house, no white ants.

hell no, if your house catches fire the fireys wont go near it plus if your concerned about global warming go with timber as its a renewable resource

[MW]

Go with steal frames for the house, no white ants.

Is a home built of steal frames considered stolen property?

Seriously though, I hear those homes make all sorts of noises during rapid temp changes.

[Squawk]

OK so up to the contract stage now.

We got the standard HIA contract. WHAT A F*****G JOKE this "contract" is.

People complain about AWAs but this thing is so one sided it's unbelievable. If the Labor govt think they have a problem with Work Choices, it's not a patch on these contracts.

Had three separate solicitors look at it in addition to my own assessment and we jointly compiled a six page schedule to attach to it. One solicitor works in the building industry. One works for the Crown Solicitor. One formerly worked for consumer affairs. A reasonable trio with good experience. Guess what? Builder refused to negotiate any contract terms and openly said that they use the HIA one because it is in their favour.

If you don't like it, go somewhere else they say. But guess what? All builders use that or the MBA contract. And the builders hate the architects who use a third standard contract. What an exercise this is proving to be.

A few quick examples:

The builder can vary any clause in the contract
The builder can pass on additional unforeseen costs (even on a fixed price contract) and can rack up these costs without your approval - only need to make reasonable endeavours to get your approval.
The builder can charge 15% interest on late payment of invoices (loan shark stuff)
You have to give them access as if they were in possession of the title itself.
They can delay for almost anything - although Bird Flu wasn't mentioned come to think of it. If you have a delay in making a decision, - look out, you may just have copped an extra "holding" cost.

Anyway, I dont want to get fired up any more than I already am.

How are you going, Dutchy?

[Punk Rooster]

I think you'll find that all paperwork is written these days, to protect the builder/tradeseman/service provider.
This has probably come about, as a result of frivilous legal proceedings in the past- now no-one wants to leave themselves exposed.
Customers can be very difficult to deal with, as they quite often have an unrealistic expectation of what will be achieved.
Also, they are sometimes presented an outcome that is unrelistic, & when this falls well short of expectations, look out!

[heater31]

Plus the HIA contracts are full of mistakes as if they were were drawn up by some 1st year law students. Some cluases dont even make sense to lawyers


Please dont go down the route of Owner builder. Best to find a compromise on the HIA contract. In my short career in the industry I have had the pleasure (accompanied by my boss) of inspecting one owner builder property after a contract of sale had been signed and due for settlement 5 days later. jeez what an eye opener and Apparently this was a good one according to my boss

[smac]

Bloody hell, glad my old man is a builder. Completed my home (about 10 years ago) in 10 weeks from land settlement to handover. Completed our extension last year in 4 weeks.

Good luck chaps, the stories he tells me about the building companies he subs to are hair-raising.

[Squawk]

I think you'll find that all paperwork is written these days, to protect the builder/tradeseman/service provider.
This has probably come about, as a result of frivilous legal proceedings in the past- now no-one wants to leave themselves exposed.
Customers can be very difficult to deal with, as they quite often have an unrealistic expectation of what will be achieved.
Also, they are sometimes presented an outcome that is unrelistic, & when this falls well short of expectations, look out!

Punky - a contract is between two or more parties and should represent both their interests. Whilst some of the client's interests are noted, I would fall short of suggesting they are represented. Plus, it is actually us contracting them to build for us - they treat it as them contracting us to do a job.

The thing is, we dont want to leave ourselves exposed either but their preference is to be able to drive a truck through their commitments and have us handcuffed to the contract.

Our proposed amendments were nothing more than a reasoned approach. For example, we didn't seek to strike out the 15% interest provision, but simply to modify it to reflect the 90 day bank bill interest rate of the Commonwealth Bank!

Another example is the clause headed "Our right to fix" - NOT - Our obligation to fix!

[heater31]

one other point to Squawk, the six monthly price adjustments are due in Feb so if you want to beat the price hike get in and sign up.

[Punk Rooster]

Punky - a contract is between two or more parties and should represent both their interests. Whilst some of the client's interests are noted, I would fall short of suggesting they are represented. Plus, it is actually us contracting them to build for us - they treat it as them contracting us to do a job.

I didn't word it as such, but I was actually agreeing with you- just pointing out the angle they'd be taking.

[Sam_goUUUdogs]

planning to build a house next year some time in one of the new Northern land developments, sounds like a massive head ache though, looking foward to it, i think.