Amateur League Looking at taking over Junior Football

[thegrowler]

Gripes are with umpires turning up asking the coaches to teach them the rules (U8s).

To be fair, the rules vary quite a bit between U8s and U9s (Zones, tackling, pressure, standing the mark, bounces etc).

Wouldn't you rather an umpire clarify rules so everyone is happy, rather than umpire how he thinks and potentially cause a shit storm?

Precisely. I'm no umpire lover but at junior footy level a coach offering a bit of support is only going to help umpire education early in the season. You would have to assume the more experienced and better umpires are doing 16s, 18s etc.

My kids don't play under 8s but aren't the coaches allowed on the ground anyway or is that just school footy?

[The Bedge]

My kids don't play under 8s but aren't the coaches allowed on the ground anyway or is that just school footy?

Correct coaches are allowed on the grounds in 8's and 9's and i think they may also in 10's.

Last year coaching 9's i found the umpires actually played a very small part, coaches pretty well made sure everything ran smoothly with their sides, and the better umpires we did have were the ones who approached me before the game, explained how they'd interpret rules and allowed me to ask questions - generally they were the younger lads too, best umpire i had would've probably been 13.

[Lightning McQueen]

My kids don't play under 8s but aren't the coaches allowed on the ground anyway or is that just school footy?

Correct coaches are allowed on the grounds in 8's and 9's and i think they may also in 10's.

Last year coaching 9's i found the umpires actually played a very small part, coaches pretty well made sure everything ran smoothly with their sides, and the better umpires we did have were the ones who approached me before the game, explained how they'd interpret rules and allowed me to ask questions - generally they were the younger lads too, best umpire i had would've probably been 13.

Yep, the rules are plain stupid at times, it stopped me from umpiring such games, like the wrap tackle, a player is meant to retard the opponent but keep them standing upright, it is physically impossible to tackle someone with momentum and both keep your feet, then there's the coaches that taught their kids to fall to the ground once tackled to extract the free kick.

[Moe]

In the 2 games my under 12's have been involved with so far this season, I think the umpiring has been great.
Round 1 at Rosewater, the umpires were always talking to the players and in round 2, there were only a few minor mistakes, but both were great.
I'm particularly happy with the sling tackle being watched and free kicks being paid this season, which has definitely not been the case over the past 3 seasons.
Unfortunately I received a blue card a few seasons ago when I voiced my disapproval for sling tackles not being cracked down on, resulting in a fractured cheek to an under 10 player. Naughty Moe!

[Lightning McQueen]

In the 2 games my under 12's have been involved with so far this season, I think the umpiring has been great.
Round 1 at Rosewater, the umpires were always talking to the players and in round 2, there were only a few minor mistakes, but both were great.
I'm particularly happy with the sling tackle being watched and free kicks being paid this season, which has definitely not been the case over the past 3 seasons.
Unfortunately I received a blue card a few seasons ago when I voiced my disapproval for sling tackles not being cracked down on, resulting in a fractured cheek to an under 10 player. Naughty Moe!

Under 12 game I seen on the weekend was a little indifferent as far as the umpires were concerned, it's a common thing in the metro comp[s though, one umpire paid every slight free and the other let the play flow and didn't pay too many, both were good at their craft, it just confuses players though.

[Executive Member]

In the 2 games my under 12's have been involved with so far this season, I think the umpiring has been great.
Round 1 at Rosewater, the umpires were always talking to the players and in round 2, there were only a few minor mistakes, but both were great.
I'm particularly happy with the sling tackle being watched and free kicks being paid this season, which has definitely not been the case over the past 3 seasons.
Unfortunately I received a blue card a few seasons ago when I voiced my disapproval for sling tackles not being cracked down on, resulting in a fractured cheek to an under 10 player. Naughty Moe!

Under 12 game I seen on the weekend was a little indifferent as far as the umpires were concerned, it's a common thing in the metro comp[s though, one umpire paid every slight free and the other let the play flow and didn't pay too many, both were good at their craft, it just confuses players though.

just getting them ready for when the make the AFL, SANFL or any senior comp

[Lightning McQueen]

just getting them ready for when the make the AFL, SANFL or any senior comp

It is the problem with the larger comps.

[gadj1976]

3 wins no losses so I'm not complaining because we lost. Gripes are with umpires turning up asking the coaches to teach them the rules (U8s). Thats not on im my mind especially since we said one of the conditions of moving over was an increased standard of umpiring. So far we are not getting it.

Are you serious, if you are I am so embarrassed for you
- your giving us your win loss ratio in under 8s
- your last post labelled the umpires deplorable, in under 8s. Under 8s...are you serious
- you have issue with the young umpires seeking out some advice prior to the game from those that should be mentoring

I hope you win the Premiership and they appoint Ray Chamberlin to your games

Seriously buddy, in week two of the season you are going to probably have a teenage kid doing his second game ever and under 8s is the perfect environment for everyone involved to develop. Take a deep breath and try and have a little understanding and analytical ability and everyone will benefit in your junior football environment.

Thanks Growler. You've missed my point completely but that's ok. Remember the context was around NEMJFA being taken over by the SANFL and that the standard of umpiring would 'improve'. Our issue with NEMJFA last year was that the umpires would rock up not knowing rules and wild interpretations of existing rules would be in play. This year obviously we expected and were advised it would not be an issue.

The win loss ratio was to put into context that I'm not griping for losing. Yep, we don't keep score, correct. But all the kids know whether we win or lose. The previous poster mentioned that they had lost but not had any reason to complain about the umpiring.

I'm thinking of the kids. The first quarter break is the coach explaining how the umpire is umpiring the game and how we (the kids) have to adapt. How hard do you reckon it is learning the game when the rules change every week?

The best umpire we've had, was a kid - 16 or 17 maybe. He umpired the game as per the rule book. That's all we and everyone else is asking from the SANFL. When you have a rule book that says "no stripping of the ball" and "no smothering" and yet it's allowed, what would you suggest we do? Even the kids get frustrated with it.

The umpire in question was at least 70 and had goal umpired 450 games of senior Ammo footy.

Other coaches (not from my club) have had meetings at 1/2 and 3/4 time, then approached the umpires about the way the game is being umpired.

BTW, I'm on the junior committee, so saying I have little understanding is completely off target.

[Milly]

3 wins no losses so I'm not complaining because we lost. Gripes are with umpires turning up asking the coaches to teach them the rules (U8s). Thats not on im my mind especially since we said one of the conditions of moving over was an increased standard of umpiring. So far we are not getting it.

Are you serious, if you are I am so embarrassed for you
- your giving us your win loss ratio in under 8s
- your last post labelled the umpires deplorable, in under 8s. Under 8s...are you serious
- you have issue with the young umpires seeking out some advice prior to the game from those that should be mentoring

I hope you win the Premiership and they appoint Ray Chamberlin to your games

Seriously buddy, in week two of the season you are going to probably have a teenage kid doing his second game ever and under 8s is the perfect environment for everyone involved to develop. Take a deep breath and try and have a little understanding and analytical ability and everyone will benefit in your junior football environment.

Thanks Growler. You've missed my point completely but that's ok.

The win loss ratio was to put into context that I'm not griping for losing. Yep, we don't keep score, correct. But all the kids know whether we win or lose. The previous poster mentioned that they had lost but not had any reason to complain about the umpiring.

I'm thinking of the kids. The first quarter break is the coach explaining how the umpire is umpiring the game and how we (the kids) have to adapt. How hard do you reckon it is learning the game when the rules change every week?

The best umpire we've had, was a kid - 16 or 17 maybe. He umpired the game as per the rule book. That's all we and everyone else is asking from the SANFL. When you have a rule book that says "no stripping of the ball" and "no smothering" and yet it's allowed, what would you suggest we do? Even the kids get frustrated with it.

The umpire in question was at least 70 and had goal umpired 450 games of senior Ammo footy.

Other coaches (not from my club) have had meetings at 1/2 and 3/4 time, then approached the umpires about the way the game is being umpired.

BTW, I'm on the junior committee, so saying I have little understanding is completely off target.

If you and so many others there know the rule book, maybe they could put there hand up to umpire?
This is Under 8s isn't it?

[gadj1976]

3 wins no losses so I'm not complaining because we lost. Gripes are with umpires turning up asking the coaches to teach them the rules (U8s). Thats not on im my mind especially since we said one of the conditions of moving over was an increased standard of umpiring. So far we are not getting it.

Are you serious, if you are I am so embarrassed for you
- your giving us your win loss ratio in under 8s
- your last post labelled the umpires deplorable, in under 8s. Under 8s...are you serious
- you have issue with the young umpires seeking out some advice prior to the game from those that should be mentoring

I hope you win the Premiership and they appoint Ray Chamberlin to your games

Seriously buddy, in week two of the season you are going to probably have a teenage kid doing his second game ever and under 8s is the perfect environment for everyone involved to develop. Take a deep breath and try and have a little understanding and analytical ability and everyone will benefit in your junior football environment.

Thanks Growler. You've missed my point completely but that's ok.

The win loss ratio was to put into context that I'm not griping for losing. Yep, we don't keep score, correct. But all the kids know whether we win or lose. The previous poster mentioned that they had lost but not had any reason to complain about the umpiring.

I'm thinking of the kids. The first quarter break is the coach explaining how the umpire is umpiring the game and how we (the kids) have to adapt. How hard do you reckon it is learning the game when the rules change every week?

The best umpire we've had, was a kid - 16 or 17 maybe. He umpired the game as per the rule book. That's all we and everyone else is asking from the SANFL. When you have a rule book that says "no stripping of the ball" and "no smothering" and yet it's allowed, what would you suggest we do? Even the kids get frustrated with it.

The umpire in question was at least 70 and had goal umpired 450 games of senior Ammo footy.

Other coaches (not from my club) have had meetings at 1/2 and 3/4 time, then approached the umpires about the way the game is being umpired.

BTW, I'm on the junior committee, so saying I have little understanding is completely off target.

If you and so many others there know the rule book, maybe they could put there hand up to umpire?
This is Under 8s isn't it?

You're kidding aren't you?

[Brodlach]

Thought the two weeks we have had the umpires have been good; in a win and a loss

Gadg only bought up his teams record in response to my post, people do tend to complain more about umpires when they lose and he was merely replying to me and that he wasn't complaining because they had lost

He has been taken out of context there

[Look Good In Leather]

This is half the problem, coaches at that level get too caught up in winning or losing that they start blaming the umpire. It's meant to be participation only, no scores kept.
Who comes on here and starts bragging about a win-loss record at U/8 level??

[Brodlach]

This is half the problem, coaches at that level get too caught up in winning or losing that they start blaming the umpire. It's meant to be participation only, no scores kept.
Who comes on here and starts bragging about a win-loss record at U/8 level??

Again he wasn't bragging about his win loss record and I was talking about under 14's and I said they have been good.

[gadj1976]

Thought the two weeks we have had the umpires have been good; in a win and a loss

Gadg only bought up his teams record in response to my post, people do tend to complain more about umpires when they lose and he was merely replying to me and that he wasn't complaining because they had lost

He has been taken out of context there

Thanks Brod. At leasr someone gets it. Cheers

[gadj1976]

This is half the problem, coaches at that level get too caught up in winning or losing that they start blaming the umpire. It's meant to be participation only, no scores kept.
Who comes on here and starts bragging about a win-loss record at U/8 level??

Indeed. Who does?

[thegrowler]

This is half the problem, coaches at that level get too caught up in winning or losing that they start blaming the umpire. It's meant to be participation only, no scores kept.
Who comes on here and starts bragging about a win-loss record at U/8 level??

Again he wasn't bragging about his win loss record and I was talking about under 14's and I said they have been good.

What he most certainly did do is label the under 8 umpires deplorable and suggest they should NOT be clarifying rules with the very coaches who are allowed on the field in the game. That is what I perceive to be very strange. He also did mention his wins even if it was taken out of context why should it matter or even be mentioned at under 8 levels by a coach.

I will give him credit in the fact he has been able to have a discussion has not become abusive so obviously a reasonable bloke who volunteers his time but I reiterate junior football will be a better place if we all have a little understanding and provide more support to junior umpires.

[gadj1976]

This is half the problem, coaches at that level get too caught up in winning or losing that they start blaming the umpire. It's meant to be participation only, no scores kept.
Who comes on here and starts bragging about a win-loss record at U/8 level??

Again he wasn't bragging about his win loss record and I was talking about under 14's and I said they have been good.

What he most certainly did do is label the under 8 umpires deplorable and suggest they should NOT be clarifying rules with the very coaches who are allowed on the field in the game. That is what I perceive to be very strange. He also did mention his wins even if it was taken out of context why should it matter or even be mentioned at under 8 levels by a coach.

I will give him credit in the fact he has been able to have a discussion has not become abusive so obviously a reasonable bloke who volunteers his time but I reiterate junior football will be a better place if we all have a little understanding and provide more support to junior umpires.

That's right. Umpires should know the rules when they arrive. Not difficult to comprehend I wouldn't have thought.

[Lightning McQueen]

That's right. Umpires should know the rules when they arrive. Not difficult to comprehend I wouldn't have thought.

Seemingly, be fine if the umpires were only assigned one or two age groups.

There are pretty much different sets of rules for every 2 year bracket age groups, some can tackle and not bump, others the other way around, once bounce max in some grades, two in others, no smothering in some, no stealing in others, zones and bibs in others where mids can't score.

Mate, it's harder than you think, a couple of years ago I was umpiring Under 14's to A Grade in the APFL, Under 16's to A Grade in the SAWFL and Under 6's to Under 16's in the NEMJFA all on the one weekend, I was forever just clarifying the rules with both coaches prior to the game if I had anything under the 13 year old bracket.

[S Demon]

That's right. Umpires should know the rules when they arrive. Not difficult to comprehend I wouldn't have thought.

Seemingly, be fine if the umpires were only assigned one or two age groups.

There are pretty much different sets of rules for every 2 year bracket age groups, some can tackle and not bump, others the other way around, once bounce max in some grades, two in others, no smothering in some, no stealing in others, zones and bibs in others where mids can't score.

Mate, it's harder than you think, a couple of years ago I was umpiring Under 14's to A Grade in the APFL, Under 16's to A Grade in the SAWFL and Under 6's to Under 16's in the NEMJFA all on the one weekend, I was forever just clarifying the rules with both coaches prior to the game if I had anything under the 13 year old bracket.

I've got a printout in my car of the basic rules for each grade so I can have quick refresher depending on what grade it is. In the first round I umpired U7's, U9's and U12's all in a row. It is tough to make split second decisions when there are different rules. I paid a 6m kick a mark in the U12's game. The young lads gave me a bit of a ribbing! It's definitely harder than you think and harder than I thought it would be

[Lightning McQueen]

I've got a printout in my car of the basic rules for each grade so I can have quick refresher depending on what grade it is. In the first round I umpired U7's, U9's and U12's all in a row. It is tough to make split second decisions when there are different rules. I paid a 6m kick a mark in the U12's game. The young lads gave me a bit of a ribbing! It's definitely harder than you think and harder than I thought it would be

Absolutely, like you said, you have a split second to make your decision, right or wrong you have to stick by it.