Feminism

[bennymacca]

Please keep it respectful, this isnt a place to bash feminists

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-07/f ... ng/8330560

For some reason i found this article incredibly frustrating.

How exactly does this help the cause of women?

I fully accept there is significant unconscious bias out there even my own - its part of the reason why there is still a gender wage gap.

And i would even be for replacing the indicators with something that isnt gender based at all - like a "walk" sign instead of a little green man.

But i am struggling to understand how having a woman on the signs instead of a man helps me remove my biases. In fact if anything it does the opposite

Happy to be persuaded if anyone else has a decent argument for this

[The Bedge]

What gender wage gap? The whole thing is a myth i'm sure..

The whole thing is a joke - i'm all for equality, but how does this create equality? I never looked at a the traffic lights and thought of men, i always just saw it as a "figure"... i highly doubt a woman has looked at it and felt incredibly under appreciated by a little traffic person not represented as a woman.

Whole "female equality" thing is beginning to get out of control - almost like it feels criminal to be a male.

[HH3]

Exactly. No such thing as a gender wage gap. It's actually illegal to pay someone less due to their sex, race, religion, etc.

If you think you are being underpaid because you're a woman, dob your workplace in, because the law is equal already.

[bennymacca]

What gender wage gap? The whole thing is a myth i'm sure..

The whole thing is a joke - i'm all for equality, but how does this create equality? I never looked at a the traffic lights and thought of men, i always just saw it as a "figure"... i highly doubt a woman has looked at it and felt incredibly under appreciated by a little traffic person not represented as a woman.

Whole "female equality" thing is beginning to get out of control - almost like it feels criminal to be a male.

There is definitely still a gender wage gap. It is a complex issue, not just wholly due to biases

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pa ... _Australia

Not sure why you feel like it is an affront to your masculinity though - you are just adding more fuel into the outrage machine

[HH3]

What gender wage gap? The whole thing is a myth i'm sure..

The whole thing is a joke - i'm all for equality, but how does this create equality? I never looked at a the traffic lights and thought of men, i always just saw it as a "figure"... i highly doubt a woman has looked at it and felt incredibly under appreciated by a little traffic person not represented as a woman.

Whole "female equality" thing is beginning to get out of control - almost like it feels criminal to be a male.

There is definitely still a gender wage gap. It is a complex issue, not just wholly due to biases

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pa ... _Australia

Not sure why you feel like it is an affront to your masculinity though - you are just adding more fuel into the outrage machine

No thats an "earning" gap. That's created by men and women doing different jobs and not earning the same money because of it.

You show me where a company pays a man and woman with the exact same title and qualifications differently, and I'll show you a company who's breaking the law that everyone already should abide.

[bennymacca]

Exactly. No such thing as a gender wage gap. It's actually illegal to pay someone less due to their sex, race, religion, etc.

If you think you are being underpaid because you're a woman, dob your workplace in, because the law is equal already.

simplistic viewpoint.

cant be denied that women are sometimes overlooked for promotions because of conscious or unconscious biases, or treated differently in other ways. Saying there is no such thing is ill informed.

But changing traffic lights isnt the way to combat it imo

No thats an "earning" gap. That's created by men and women doing different jobs and not earning the same money because of it.

You show me where a company pays a man and woman with the exact same title and qualifications, and I'll show you a company who's breaking the law that everyone already should abide.

it happens within the same career too - pretty clear you didnt even get past the first line in that wiki article

""Utilising robust microeconomic modelling techniques, based on a comprehensive and critical evaluation of several methodologies, we found that simply being a woman is the major contributing factor to the gap in Australia, accounting for 60 per cent of the difference between women’s and men’s earnings, a finding which reflects other Australian research in this area. Indeed, the results showed that if the effects of being a woman were removed, the average wage of an Australian woman would increase by $1.87 per hour, equating to an additional $65 per week or $3,394 annually, based on a 35 hour week." (The second most important factor in explaining the pay gap was industrial segregation.)[1]"

[am Bays]

I never looked at a the traffic lights and thought of men, i always just saw it as a "figure"...

I always thought it was a women in slacks....

[HH3]

Exactly. No such thing as a gender wage gap. It's actually illegal to pay someone less due to their sex, race, religion, etc.

If you think you are being underpaid because you're a woman, dob your workplace in, because the law is equal already.

simplistic viewpoint.

cant be denied that women are sometimes overlooked for promotions because of conscious or unconscious biases, or treated differently in other ways. Saying there is no such thing is ill informed.

But changing traffic lights isnt the way to combat it imo

No thats an "earning" gap. That's created by men and women doing different jobs and not earning the same money because of it.

You show me where a company pays a man and woman with the exact same title and qualifications, and I'll show you a company who's breaking the law that everyone already should abide.

it happens within the same career too - pretty clear you didnt even get past the first line in that wiki article

""Utilising robust microeconomic modelling techniques, based on a comprehensive and critical evaluation of several methodologies, we found that simply being a woman is the major contributing factor to the gap in Australia, accounting for 60 per cent of the difference between women’s and men’s earnings, a finding which reflects other Australian research in this area. Indeed, the results showed that if the effects of being a woman were removed, the average wage of an Australian woman would increase by $1.87 per hour, equating to an additional $65 per week or $3,394 annually, based on a 35 hour week." (The second most important factor in explaining the pay gap was industrial segregation.)[1]"

The law is equal.

If a woman thinks she is being discriminated against, she should take legal action. The same as a male should. Equal.

[The Bedge]

cant be denied that women are sometimes overlooked for promotions because of conscious or unconscious biases, or treated differently in other ways. Saying there is no such thing is ill informed.

Can you provide any examples? These days diversity is key, especially in senior roles.. women quite often are sought out for promotions or executive roles etc.

[HH3]

cant be denied that women are sometimes overlooked for promotions because of conscious or unconscious biases, or treated differently in other ways. Saying there is no such thing is ill informed.

Can you provide any examples? These days diversity is key, especially in senior roles.. women quite often are sought out for promotions or executive roles etc.

Careful, he might find one on Wikipedia.

[The Bedge]

""Utilising robust microeconomic modelling techniques, based on a comprehensive and critical evaluation of several methodologies, we found that simply being a woman is the major contributing factor to the gap in Australia, accounting for 60 per cent of the difference between women’s and men’s earnings, a finding which reflects other Australian research in this area. Indeed, the results showed that if the effects of being a woman were removed, the average wage of an Australian woman would increase by $1.87 per hour, equating to an additional $65 per week or $3,394 annually, based on a 35 hour week." (The second most important factor in explaining the pay gap was industrial segregation.)[1]"

Reference from 2009

[HH3]

This is from the Australian Governments Workplace Gender Equality Agency website.

It is important to remember that the national gender pay gap is a high-level figure that shows general differences in earnings between women and men across the board. It is not a like-for-like analysis of women and men doing the same job and therefore, it doesn’t mean that women are earning 18.8% less than men in the same role,” Dr Harris said.

Pretty much means the figures are not representative of anything.

Just think of the families where the male works and earns enough for the female to stay home with the kids by choice. Their gender pay gap is 100%.

[Jimmy_041]

Minister for Women Fiona Richardson said the use of a woman's figure on pedestrian crossings would make public space more inclusive of women.

[toot toot]

Re: Wages...

Is it possible these 'gaps' are created due to time women take out of the workforce to have/raise families?

So while the women may have the same qualifications, and essentially do the same job, they may actually have significantly less experience.

Someone who's worked 5 full-time years, 1 year off & 4 part-time years, most likely won't get the same pay as someone who has worked 10 continuous years even though their job title is the same.

My understanding is nurses go up a pay scale for every 'full-time equivalent' year of service - even though they job title & qualifications stay the same.

[The Bedge]

Minister for Women Fiona Richardson said the use of a woman's figure on pedestrian crossings would make public space more inclusive of women.

Because I see women all over Australia afraid locking themselves in houses and afraid to enter public space because the "gender" of a little green/red person at a set of lights

If you want to adjust and make people feel more "inclusive" or rather less segregated and equal, then remove the person all together and have words like "Walk" "Stop" or just have coloured lights like you do with car traffic lights.

[HH3]

Cant wait for the transgender lights to roll out.

(I have no problem with transgender people. I just think this is getting so ridiculous)

[HH3]

From the guys at the Betoota Advocate

Outrage Surrounding Gender Of Melbourne Streetlights Great Example Of Why Trump Won

Making a huge deal about whether or not the LED lights inside a pedestrian’s streetlight make up the shape of a man or a woman is a great way to encourage people to vote for dangerous politicians, it has been confirmed.

Today it has been confirmed that pedestrian traffic lights depicting female figures will be installed in Melbourne’s CBD today as a part of a lobby group’s push for gender equality in street lights.

Ten female pedestrian figures will be installed on traffic lights at the intersection of Swanston and Flinders streets as part of a VicRoads-approved 12-month trial.

However one local leftie says this is offensive in itself.

“They just assume that all of these green and red icons identify as men?” said part-time Moroccan drum instructor, Niall Lupi.

“Assuming someone’s gender based on their appearance is barbaric”

“They shouldn’t have anything there. It’s all too offensive”

Recently retrenched Shepparton factory worker, John Birley (44) says that while he is aware of the need for gender equality in the workplace, he wasn’t aware of it being an issue for streetlights until twenty minutes ago.

“Mate, my eyes are so ****** from the dust and sparks in the factory that I can’t even make out the shape of those ******* things”

“I thought I was looking at a picture of a foot”

“But if voting for Pauline Hanson means I don’t have to listen to these precious city **** complain about things like this, then so be it”

Country Greens NSW Senator Jeremy Buckingham says that while he does consider himself a progressive, he hopes to ******* christ none of the Sydney progressives try and pull something like this.

“To all these little lefties in Sydney’s inner-west, I have one request. Please don’t go full Melbourne on us. The last thing we need is a ******* revolt against any form of progressive politics”

“I’m a tree-hugging pothead from way back and even I know this is too far”

[HH3]

Some funny stuff popping up

[bennymacca]

cant be denied that women are sometimes overlooked for promotions because of conscious or unconscious biases, or treated differently in other ways. Saying there is no such thing is ill informed.

Can you provide any examples? These days diversity is key, especially in senior roles.. women quite often are sought out for promotions or executive roles etc.

Careful, he might find one on Wikipedia.

im glad all it takes is your opinion to refute all of the research that is done into this area

This is from the Australian Governments Workplace Gender Equality Agency website.

It is important to remember that the national gender pay gap is a high-level figure that shows general differences in earnings between women and men across the board. It is not a like-for-like analysis of women and men doing the same job and therefore, it doesn’t mean that women are earning 18.8% less than men in the same role,” Dr Harris said.

Pretty much means the figures are not representative of anything.

Just think of the families where the male works and earns enough for the female to stay home with the kids by choice. Their gender pay gap is 100%.

this is clearly a factor but cannot explain away the full difference.

The law is equal.

If a woman thinks she is being discriminated against, she should take legal action. The same as a male should. Equal.

lets say there were two people going for a promotion who were both equally qualified. One person gets the job.

How does the other person know they were discriminated against?

In a lot of industries I think the problem is all but gone. At least thats my perception in my field. But to just explain away the differences in a single sentence is ridiculous

[Booney]

My balls are itchy.